Creating new roots

[shibui]

Hi Elmar,
In actual fact water travels up the stem on the tree through the xylem which is the layer of wood under the cambium layer. Xylem cells die soon after they form and are rigid - that's the part of the tree we call wood.
Sugars and hormones travel back down in the phloem which consists of living cells which are located in the bit we call bark, outside the cambium layer.
The cambium layer is the area where cells are being generated. Cambium consists of undifferentiated cells - they don't know what they are yet and can become whatever is needed by the plant. The ones on the inside usually become xylem (wood), the ones on the outside become bark as new cells continue to form between the 2 layers.

Sounds simple

[Elmar]

Hi Elmar,
In actual fact water travels up the stem on the tree through the xylem which is the layer of wood under the cambium layer. Xylem cells die soon after they form and are rigid - that's the part of the tree we call wood.
Sugars and hormones travel back down in the phloem which consists of living cells which are located in the bit we call bark, outside the cambium layer.
The cambium layer is the area where cells are being generated. Cambium consists of undifferentiated cells - they don't know what they are yet and can become whatever is needed by the plant. The ones on the inside usually become xylem (wood), the ones on the outside become bark as new cells continue to form between the 2 layers.

Sounds simple

Simple as broo!

I couldn't remember all that before ... but that now helps me ... I thinx

[Ray M]

G'Day Ray,
please forgive my Daft nature, but I'd like to get a better handle on this (rather simple) concept - tying of the cut with wire: - my understanding is that it "discourages" reconnection between the two cuts (top & bottom of the 'ring-barking') by creating a physical barrier on the hard wood. [got it!?!]
I get the thickness of the wire measurement ~ need to allow room for the new roots to grow out of the top layer. [got that, too!?!]

BUT the 'ring-barking' still allows nutrients to flow from the roots to the leaves via the [?] Cambium [?] but not in reverse (due to the cut); if then we tighten the wire too tightly, would that not crush this Cambium layer starving the leaves and killing that branch/top of the tree!?! - How do we gauge that? Or is it sufficient to get the wire to be just tight enough to lay flat against the cambium? Not to "choke" the cambium but the be just and additional barrier?

Hi Elmar,
Shibui has given you some great information. The wire is not there to prevent the layer healing itself. The layer is prevented from healing by two things. The distance the top and bottom cuts are apart and the removal of all the cambium.
So, what does the wire do
First, the wire is not necessary on all species of trees. This idea came about when trying to find a way to deal with trees that tend to callus rather than develop roots. Have a look at the photo below. If you have a close look at where the red arrows are indicating, you will see the beginning of callusing but roots have also developed.

Callus.jpg

You will notice that the callus has hit the wire and not folded down. In conjunction with this I believe the callus is irritated by the wire helping it to shoot roots.

Regards Ray

[Elmar]

G'Day Ray,
please forgive my Daft nature, but I'd like to get a better handle on this (rather simple) concept - tying of the cut with wire: - my understanding is that it "discourages" reconnection between the two cuts (top & bottom of the 'ring-barking') by creating a physical barrier on the hard wood. [got it!?!]
I get the thickness of the wire measurement ~ need to allow room for the new roots to grow out of the top layer. [got that, too!?!]

BUT the 'ring-barking' still allows nutrients to flow from the roots to the leaves via the [?] Cambium [?] but not in reverse (due to the cut); if then we tighten the wire too tightly, would that not crush this Cambium layer starving the leaves and killing that branch/top of the tree!?! - How do we gauge that? Or is it sufficient to get the wire to be just tight enough to lay flat against the cambium? Not to "choke" the cambium but the be just and additional barrier?

Hi Elmar,
Shibui has given you some great information. The wire is not there to prevent the layer healing itself. The layer is prevented from healing by two things. The distance the top and bottom cuts are apart and the removal of all the cambium.
So, what does the wire do
First, the wire is not necessary on all species of trees. This idea came about when trying to find a way to deal with trees that tend to callus rather than develop roots. Have a look at the photo below. If you have a close look at where the red arrows are indicating, you will see the beginning of callusing but roots have also developed.

Callus.jpg

You will notice that the callus has hit the wire and not folded down. In conjunction with this I believe the callus is irritated by the wire helping it to shoot roots.

Regards Ray

... and now we combine this with this procedure and explode the Nebari ...

Well ... , I can try can't I!? (no! I'm not "Trying" your patience )

[Ray M]

Hi Elmar,
This has sparked another idea. I'll give it a go and see what happens. I guess I'll leave you thinking. What's the old saying, "watch this space".

Regards Ray

... and now we combine this with this procedure and explode the Nebari ...

Well ... , I can try can't I!? (no! I'm not "Trying" your patience )

[Elmar]

Hi Elmar,
This has sparked another idea. I'll give it a go and see what happens. I guess I'll leave you thinking. What's the old saying, "watch this space".

Regards Ray

... and now we combine this with this procedure and explode the Nebari ...

Well ... , I can try can't I!? (no! I'm not "Trying" your patience )

Hahaha Mr Ray,
I look forward to the outcome. I've just recently caught myself procrastinating (analysis paralysis) where I keep reading and looking and planning but I don't actually do anything ... so I kicked myself in the butt and went out to attack my Vimialis (spelling). It seemed pot bound and it wasn't until i pulled it out and started to take the dirt away that I realised how badly it was pot bound! The roots were curling upwards never seen anything like it!
Now, heavily pruned, its resting in a bucket of Seasol in fresh bonsai soil mix (from Bonsai Emporium) and now, only time will tell... But I have a ficus that I have managed to wrestle from the clutches of Hades itself, that is going absolute bananas!!!!
I wanted to try your air layering technique and then combine that with the second procedure I linked in above. So, its with anticipation that I await your

"watch this space".

and have gotten most things in place now to try the airlyer on the weekend...

[xIIRevoEvoS]

What with the pot inside the colander??

[Ray M]

What with the pot inside the colander??

Hi xIIRevoEvoS,
Have a look at this link, How Why to Ground Layer This shows the whole process.

Regards Ray

[Elmar]

What with the pot inside the colander??

RevEvos, it's used for the Ground/Airlayer - to hold the soil for the new roots that are being encouraged to grow ...

[xIIRevoEvoS]

What with the pot inside the colander??

Hi xIIRevoEvoS,
Have a look at this link, How Why to Ground Layer This shows the whole process.

Regards Ray

So its similar to Colander potting except this is more for Root development prior layering.

[shibui]

So its similar to Colander potting except this is more for Root development prior layering.

Not sure about that. The pot around the layer simply holds the soil in place while roots grow. If it wasn't there the soil would wash away and leave the layered area exposed to the air. If there was enough space to the top of the main pot you could just fill that with mix to cover the layer but in most cases there isn't so you need to make some sort of a fence to keep the extra mix in place - pot, mesh, wooden boards, anything will do.

[xIIRevoEvoS]

So its similar to Colander potting except this is more for Root development prior layering.

Not sure about that. The pot around the layer simply holds the soil in place while roots grow. If it wasn't there the soil would wash away and leave the layered area exposed to the air. If there was enough space to the top of the main pot you could just fill that with mix to cover the layer but in most cases there isn't so you need to make some sort of a fence to keep the extra mix in place - pot, mesh, wooden boards, anything will do.

I understand the concept with pot/colander but from my interpretation Colander planting creates better nebari with roots spreading out whereas pot/colander helps to create new root growth similar to air layering technique with spaghnum moss/cellophane wrap.

[Ray M]

Hi Elmar,
This has sparked another idea. I'll give it a go and see what happens. I guess I'll leave you thinking. What's the old saying, "watch this space".

Regards Ray

Hi Elmar,
I have created a new thread. Have a look at Ficus Ground Layer for New Root System As mentioned in the post, there are a number of people who have used similar methods. I have tried a couple of different elements to see what will happen.

Regards Ray

[Elmar]

Awesome Ray,
Glad I can be of inspiration to someone of your knowledge and understanding.


Cheers
Elmar