Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by Dario »

bodhidharma wrote: Hi Dario, no, no thorns and yes, a grafted tree. It makes for a hardier tree.
Thanks Bodhi, I am now sure the one I mentioned is the same species.
Ray M wrote:If there is any doubt about cuttings, would it not be worth doing some air layers? Have any of you tried layering,
Hi Ray, I asked the owner if I could try an air layer but they declined. I will try cuttings though.
Cheers, Dario.
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by Ray M »

peterb wrote:Hi Ray
I've tried twice to layer my neighbors pauls scarlett without success , both times it callust over but then late summer they died. Not sure if i did something wrong :lost: , having bought your book on maple layering :reading: i was thinking of trying that method with the muck around the cut and soaking the moss in seasol , will post what happens
regards
peterb
Hi Peter,
If you follow all the steps in the book mate, I can't see why you won't have success. Since using this method I have had almost 100% success rate. The only failure was on the Shishigashira Maple. Out of 15 layers we got 14 successful layers. Ray and Clinton were over the moon with these results. They had tried several times and had very little success. The following is one of the layers.
IMG_4648 -2.jpg
Regards Ray

PS Bodhi, I hope you don't mind me adding this info to your thread.
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Last edited by Ray M on October 27th, 2013, 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by Ray M »

bodhidharma wrote:I have had this as a donor tree for a while now as i tried layers, cuttings etc off it with not a lot of success. I have a layer off it that might go and have given a couple away. On the layering process, Hawthorns develop a bulbous node where the roots should be, which keeps it alive. I have kept the layers alive for two years now . I feed them seasol and an organic mix to see if i can develop a root system on them. I have flowers on them this year so decided to go ahead and develop the Mother tree into a Bonsai. It is not much at the moment but i believe the tree will be a stunner in another few years. i just wanted to share its humble beginning and its story.
Hi Bodhi,
This is the very result that caused me to write the Air Layering Trident Maples book. After writing my first book on layering, Clinton Nesci spoke to me and explained that they have a lot of trouble getting Trident Maples to air layer. They also tend to callous and not send out roots. I gave this a lot of thought and came up with an idea. I discussed this with Clinton and he responded with some wise advise. He thought I should try a normal layer and the new method on the same tree to see what the results would be. i was absolutely in agreement with him, for the reason, that you can't just do something once and claim that this is the answer. After trying the experiment and the results were very pleasing indeed. I tried it again and the results were better than the first results. When Ray Nesci saw the results this was the catalyst to try layering his Shishigashira Maple. He had tried layering this tree with not a lot of success. When we took the layers off the tree he and I were over the moon with the success.

Regards Ray
Last edited by Ray M on October 27th, 2013, 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ray M
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by Ray M »

Hi Bohdi,
I was up at Ray's nursery a couple of weeks back and he has a large Crataegus lobulata. With your post in mind I asked if I could do some layers. Ray was very happy for me to try. Here are a few photos. It will be interesting to see how they go.
IMG_7355 -2.jpg
IMG_7356 -2.jpg
IMG_7357 -2.jpg
Regards Ray
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by bodhidharma »

:fc: got them crossed for a successful outcome Ray. Keep us tuned.
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by Ray M »

bodhidharma wrote::fc: got them crossed for a successful outcome Ray. Keep us tuned.
Hi Bodhi,
Will keep you informed. I hope it will work. Ray has some large branches on this tree. If it works okay he might let me layer some bigger branches. :fc:

Regards Ray
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by Neli »

bodhidharma wrote:
bonsaibuddyman wrote: The only thing I don't like about it, is the trunk seems to stay thick for quite a way along the trunk.
Being a grafted tree i dont have a choice and this was the only style that would alleviate the problem. But, trust me, when i get this tree to where i want it you will not notice.
Dario wrote:Does your tree have thorns Bodhi? Also looking at the base, is yours grafted?
Hi Dario, no, no thorns and yes, a grafted tree. It makes for a hardier tree.
Ray M wrote:If there is any doubt about cuttings, would it not be worth doing some air layers? Have any of you tried layering,
Hi Ray, the top photo is a layer but very difficult to do and this one has been separated for three years and, i think, is going to survive. I have bought some super dooper root stimulant which i will talk about later.
treeman wrote: now someone tell me how to develop good branches PLEASE!! Maybe I should not prune and just wire down everything?
Yep, the only way to develop branching is to wire everything, even branches you dont think you need. make selections later down the track. Secondarys and tertiary's, even if they are not in the right place, have to be maneuvered into position, i tried clip and grow with no success.
Hi Bodhi,
Can you explain a bit more about styling this tree. Why will clip and grow not work? How do you trim the branches. I have one and I am not sure what to do.
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by bodhidharma »

Neli wrote:Hi Bodhi,
Can you explain a bit more about styling this tree. Why will clip and grow not work? How do you trim the branches. I have one and I am not sure what to do.
When you clip and grow hawthorns Neli they develop ugly knuckles at the point of cuttings. They normally will throw another branch where you cut the last one and this builds a knuckle at that point. I have found it is easier to wire the branch and just end tip it to create back budding. You will of course, have to eventually cut the branch but it will be at the ends and stops the ugly knuckling. This is only my experience of course and there would be many other ways to skin the cat. For some reason also, they hardly grow at all after pruning and i let it grow all growing season and cut in Autumn.
Last edited by bodhidharma on November 16th, 2013, 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by Neli »

Thanks Bodhi,
I have cuneata, and I am not sure if it is the same habit tree. I did not know all this and chopped it less than two weeks ago. I noticed some growth /new shoots already, but did not look close to see where it is. I only trimmed the top branches since they were growing too fat. I shall look at it closely tomorrow, and report how it is behaving.
I guess mine is still in a state of confusion...came from autumn in Japan to spring in Zambia, and decided to bud.
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by Ray M »

Hi Bodhi,
Here are some new photos of the layers. They are looking very good. I took the photos on 21 November 2013.
IMG_7416 -3.jpg
IMG_7417 -3.jpg
IMG_7418 -3.jpg
The rain we have had and still getting some, has really come at the right time. Apart from this tree I have also layered two other trees for Ray. One has 12 layers and the other has 9 layers. When I was up there on Thursday all the layers were looking good.

Regards Ray
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by bodhidharma »

Ray M wrote:Hi Bodhi,
Here are some new photos of the layers. They are looking very good. I took the photos on 21 November 2013.
:fc: :fc: :fc:
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by Ray M »

Hi Bohdi,
It looks like there is a good possibility that the layers will work. Ray Nesci was happy to see the roots. As your aware they can be difficult to get cutting to take. Time will tell now if they will take and grow. :fc: :fc:
IMG_8148 -2.jpg
IMG_8149 -2.jpg
IMG_8165 -2.jpg
IMG_8166 -2.jpg
IMG_8167 -2.jpg
Regards Ray
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by Ray M »

Hi Bohdi,
Good news mate. Looks like the air layers are going to work well. I've started another thread. I don't want to keep filling your thread with my posts.

Have a look at the link: Air Layering Crataegus lobulata

Regards Ray
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by bodhidharma »

I have worked on getting some movement into the rather large trunk and it spent 10 month's in a bending jack. it was successful and now i will go further up and do it all again higher up. It has gone into a larger pot for a while but it has filled out nicely and given profuse flowers. I am sharing the beautiful flowers (before they get cut off for more work.)
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Re: Crataegus laevigata.."Pauls scarlett semi cascade.

Post by Brad75 »

Hi Bodhidharma,

That Hawthorn (?) is a special little lady. I haven't seen anything that beautiful in my books yet! Excellent :cool: :hooray: work!

Cheers,

Brad75.
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