AusBonsai

In 2016 I bought this Chinese Quince from shibui, with no real knowledge about their growth habits or much else, really. I just knew I wanted one because I'd seen so many beautiful trees from Japan and China.
I cut it back pretty hard after it arrived, and planted it back into the plastic pot for a year, then in Winter last year I root-pruned it and placed it into this unglazed pot. Since then I've removed the wire am allowing it to recover from the defoliation and wiring. Here are a couple of different views. I'm attempting to get it to ramify, and will hopefully have something worthwhile in a decade or so. I'm hoping that when I go to the Boon workshop next month he'll be able to give me some help with how to style the tree.

Any suggestions meanwhile?

G'day Mel..
Good looking quince. I began my quince obsession 2 years ago and yeah, after seeing how awesome they become from examples in Japan. With the few that I have, I pretty much let them free grow for the season and cut back brutally hard to either the 1st of 2nd bud, otherwise they have no taper in the branches and internodes get too long. Good to see they grow well in the tropics for you.

Hey Rob, that sounds like an excellent technique, thanks! I'll definitely try to work on those shorter internodes and tapered branches!
They do seem to like our climate, but I've probably worked it a bit hard by defoliating twice in the last year...

Yesterday I watched a Q&A from Mirai Live, and Ryan was asked a question about getting Chinese Quince to ramify. (The main problem being that the tree often only shot again from one bud, rather than two, even though there were two available.) He said when you cut the branch back to two buds you should also halve the two leaves, so that it forces it to push out from both buds. He also mentioned that you need to grow the branches out to close to their desired thickness before looking for ramification. Once the thickness has been reached, it needs to be constricted in its root system, ie: into a bonsai container, so that the roots as well as the branches ramify.

Is this ringing any bells with anyone here?

The idea of restricting root growth to get better ramification is something I've also come to understand, not only with quince but most other species. Root ramification may have some impact on branch ramification - I've noticed a definite correlation between the shape of the root system and the branches above (few downward roots almost always produces few upright branches while spreading roots tend to have more spreading branching so maybe a well ramified root system will be reflected above in a well ramified branch structure?) - but more important in my opinion is reduced internode length when roots are restricted. Closer internodes means more opportunity to grow more closely packed side shoots which leads to far better ramification.
I've found it impossible to get good branch ramification when growing trees fast, especially in the ground. Don't bother with branching at that stage, just grow a trunk. Better branches develop when the tree is in a pot then final ramification in a smaller pot.

Halving leaves or defoliation is a technique used with many deciduous species to stimulate dormant buds so sounds feasible that it should also work with quince but I have not tried it with them.

Thanks Neil, good to know you're able to confirm these findings. Mind you, Ryan uses akadama, which he says, because of it's ability to "scale the roots" he gets better ramification with it. I think that's his phrase, it means that the pieces of akadama allow roots to grow through them in a way that they keep on ramifying. Another reason he uses finer grain sizes for his smaller plants, to allow them to keep branching more easily... so I'm interested in trying what he's preaching...and am now thinking that the pot I have this quince in might be too large if I want to get finer branching?

We used to hear people talking about 'sharp' sand - angular with sharp edges because the sharp corners would split the roots and result in a better ramified root structure. roots don't split when they run into sharp surfaces. They split/ramify when conditions are suitable. Sharp sand and probably akadama are just 2 of the ingredients that help to provide the conditions needed but there are plenty of others that seem to do the same, just not marketed as well as akadama.
Personally, I don't see the point in bringing mineral soils halfway round the world to add to my potting mix. Feel free to let me know how much better than current mixes your expensive akadama mix is.

lol, there's no way I'll be using akadama either, I just mentioned that's what he uses. I will be attempting to make my mix a little less chunky, the smaller the pot though. I'm using diatomite, searles potting mix, zeolite and pumice at the moment...that will change now that diatomite is currently off the list.

Thanks for your input, valued as always!

Not sure on the smaller pot idea at this stage Mel.. The trunk has still got a long way to go to fatten up. imo.. I've got my chunky one and also my younger one, about the same thickness as yours both in the larger size orchid grow pots, they put on so much growth in a season and fattening up nicely. To restrict it now would restrict it's growth overall and slow it down. You may get better ramification but less growth. I guess it depends on how fat you would like the trunk to develop.

Thanks Rob, I'll hold off for another season, but I quite like the elegant trunk as it is, so won't push it too hard, I think. Hopefully I'll get a chance to clap my peepers on your trees on day...hopefully next year for the convention on natives.

You were dead right Rob. Boon workshop was very interesting and informative, and this is what my quince looks like now after he explained what he was doing.



I have the confidence to continue with this now.

melbrackstone wrote: Boon workshop was very interesting and informative, and this is what my quince looks like now after he explained what he was doing.

Hey melbrackstone, would you care to elaborate on Boon's explanation? I do notice that you seem to have repotted into a far coarser mix (maybe it's the photo). Aiming for a bit more trunk thickening?

terryb wrote:

melbrackstone wrote:I do notice that you seem to have repotted into a far coarser mix

I'm gonna go out on a limb .... Boon mix????
Your quince is definitely more compact! I would also be interested to hear what Boon said, the best bit is, as you say, you're now confident to go forward.

Boon's pretty solid on his need to keep his mix 100% inorganic. He's recently moved from San Francisco to the western suburbs of LA. I suspect he might change his mix a little once he's been there for awhile, since he's moved to a much more desert-like climate. He does advocate the use of a top dressing of grated sphagnum though, so maybe that'll see him through the Summer. (My observations only, not actually admitted to by him.)

I repotted this tree using pumice, scoria, zeolite, and diatomite in equal quantities. The bigger particles were placed at the base for aeration. I hadn't top dressed it for the photo. So yes Terry and Ryceman, I guess you could say it's my version of a Boon mix...although I don't have access to 3 - 6mm scoria here at the moment, so this was the last of what I had. Apparently it's easy to get in Vic!

Boon's explanation of how to grow it is exactly what Robsterios said....grow it like crazy through the season then cut it back hard to 1 or 2 buds to aid ramification and taper. Hence it's looking a bit like a stick at the moment.

Mel, that mix is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy to course if you are looking for ramification. You would be better off using what's under your feet than this type of mix. Yes, Boon's mix is no good for this species. Normal potting mix with a little sand in it will give you better results.