AusBonsai

You gotta be a bit crazy really....
Now that explains the pretzels, um I mean pre yamadori in your garden!

Pretzels?...... These pretzels are making my thirsty!

So I dug up a few of these. Certainly difficult material to handle. After cutting the roots (before lifting) last autumn I have already lost 8 of them. We live and learn!
These ones had new roots coming so they should be good.
To grow these to large sizes would be a very long term project!! but I think the results are pretty good so far....They will make lovely shohin trees as good as anything you can dig from the wild? Now 6 years in training I think.
I may have 1 or 2 available at the convention next year

As I understand it, Leptos can be tricky to dig. One useful technique has been to put them in a shallow water bath after root-pruning/repotting. I've bare-rooted one, to test the technique, and it survived. Warmer weather might also be kinder.

From these trunks, it looks likely that the early-twist techniques used on shimpaku might be useful for those growing Leptos, maybe easier just in larger and larger pots, rather than ground growing.

Thanks for posting.

Gavin

i also think pot growing will ensure easier root pruning and survival rates.

Grant

i also think pot growing will ensure easier root pruning and survival rates.

Grant

Like any plant material, it's a matter of learning what you can and can't do with it. Then do the do's and don't do the don'ts

Awesome results Treeman from some very hard graft.

Demonstrating a valuable lesson that in order to get great results, we need a clear plan, some dedication and rigour and actually to get in there and DO IT, rather than thinking or talking about doing it.

Really pleased for you.


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Hi Mike.

I think it's PeterH that said once you reduce your root mass to take to put culture then they are fine.
So I think you should go easy on the pruning and reduction.

I know Grant said that warmer is better but I also lost one in a hot summer repot.
Perhaps my after care we not good enough?

I've another one (I love LL) right now and I'm taking the migration to small pot culture slower and won't repot in full Melbourne summer again.

PS they look great and I'm most interested to see the refined results!

Boics wrote:Hi Mike.

I think it's PeterH that said once you reduce your root mass to take to put culture then they are fine.
So I think you should go easy on the pruning and reduction.

I know Grant said that warmer is better but I also lost one in a hot summer repot.
Perhaps my after care we not good enough?

I've another one (I love LL) right now and I'm taking the migration to small pot culture slower and won't repot in full Melbourne summer again.

PS they look great and I'm most interested to see the refined results!

Yes I try to go easy. Remember these were in pots for 3 years with roots regularly trimmed before they went in the ground. They had a very fine fibrous root system at that stage but because they have evolved to grow in sand, it's in their DNA to put down true tap roots to find clay deep down under the sand - which they soon did after transplanting to the ground. Unfortunately, I have discovered that the production of the tap roots supresses the vigour of the lateral roots almost completely. (BTW that's why you seldom see a nebari on them in nature) Now that I'm more aware of exactly how they grow. I'll be able to manage them better.
Thinking about it, the Japanese had similar problems extracting shimpaku roots from deep narrow cracks in the rock and coming out with enough root to keep them alive. Many many shimpaku were lost for the same reason.

treeman wrote: Yes I try to go easy. Remember these were in pots for 3 years with roots regularly trimmed before they went in the ground. They had a very fine fibrous root system at that stage but because they have evolved to grow in sand, it's in their DNA to put down true tap roots to find clay deep down under the sand - which they soon did after transplanting to the ground. Unfortunately, I have discovered that the production of the tap roots supresses the vigour of the lateral roots almost completely. (BTW that's why you seldom see a nebari on them in nature) Now that I'm more aware of exactly how they grow. I'll be able to manage them better.
Thinking about it, the Japanese had similar problems extracting shimpaku roots from deep narrow cracks in the rock and coming out with enough root to keep them alive. Many many shimpaku were lost for the same reason.

Would planting in colanders (still in the ground) be a method to help reign in the tap root issue or is that just counter intuitive?? I guess you really need to cut the tap roots rather than simply inhibit their growth in order to stimulate lateral root development? This is a very interesting thread - thanks for posting your experiences.

Starting with some branching in these as well. Only about 10 or so left alive from about 60 odd from this first batch. The next batch are staying in pots.
Please excuse the shaky pics - hand held..

#1
Left side..

#2
#3

treeman wrote: Only about 10 or so left alive from about 60 odd from this first batch.

Thats really low. Is that from the severe pruning, bending/snapping, or something else?

Rory wrote:

treeman wrote: Only about 10 or so left alive from about 60 odd from this first batch.

Thats really low. Is that from the severe pruning, bending/snapping, or something else?

It's from cutting the tap roots with a sharp spade and just assuming there were lateral roots when there were none!!!!!!!!!!!!

A real shame to here of your losses. These are really great stock material! super fun. Do you think it would be possible to achieve a similar result with a few extra years in a pot and reduce the risk of collecting them from grow beds.