Trident- twin trunk.

[Brian]

IMG_1666.JPG

This is a tree that I have been working on since 1987. Its a trident maple that was actually 3 small trees that was platted together and grown over a piece of ironstone.

Please forgive the appalling wiring job. Sorry the pictures are not very clear, but the second photo has a pair of branch cutters next to the trunk so you can get a sense of size.

Comments and critiques welcome.

[shibui]

These trunks have excellent character and the movement of both trunks compliment each other really well. Hiro noted that multi trunk trees are not really very common in Japan because of the added difficulty each extra trunk adds to getting it right but these work really well.
I note that these trees have a bit of thickening in the upper parts of the trunk. Quite a few of my tridents and Japanese maples have similar. I think it takes great care in the development phase to prevent this in maples.

Overall an excellent specimen.

[treeman]

Brian, I'm going to be the bringer of bad news. (but there is good news too)
The good news is that the base of this tree has very good character and high quality.
The bad news is that the branches and trunks are no good. You may be perfectly happy with the way it is but I guarrantee you won't be in the years to come. The quality of the tree will not improve if you continue on the same course therefore you should make a decision now as to whether you take steps to correct it or not (Totally up to you of course!)
The branches are too rough and need to be re-done. Unfortunately this means cutting them all off.
There is also a severe lack of taper (which is fundamental) so you also need to cut the trunks way back and re grow them.
With the first (largest) trunk, I recommend cutting it back to the main branch on the outside of the main bend where it goes vertical. Use that branch as the basis for the new apex. Cut that branch back by half and wire a future shoot up to form a new trunk line.
The second trunk also needs to be cut hard. Perhaps to the small branch on the inside of the curve, and treated the same way as the large trunk.
This is where I see a future for this tree (others may dissagree)
EVERYTHING else should be removed. The little trunk to right also needs to go.
By the time you reach the height of the trees as they are, you should be approaching a finished tree with lots of ramification in the crown. This will take about 10 years.
The reason for swellings and thickenings is incorrect pruning. You MUST remove all growth except 2 leaders from every shoot EVERY year! This is the only way to avoid this common issue which we see far to often.
New branches can be formed quickly from shoots growing from where you remove the branches. They should be wired into position when small and the cut back to 1 or 2 sets of buds each year.
Tridents will put out shoots all the time from everywhere. You have to remove them all except 1 or 2!
PS If it where mine, I would cut the trunks back to just above their bases. (maybe 5cm above?) The quality of the nebari really deserves complete trunk reworking.

[Brian]

Hmmm, have to think about that Mike.

Agree some of the branches need refining and the height could be reduced a bit.

[bodhidharma]

I quite like it Brian, lovely movement and design. I feel that with a little more branching in the upper part of the setting and some refinement with secondary and tertiary's it will be a classic tree. i am thinking the photo's are not giving the tree any credit. It looks like the inside branches in the middle of the tree are growing over each other but i am sure that is not the case.

[Brian]

thank you Bodhidhama, I will not be following treemans advice.

That sort of severe criticism has seen me leave the bonsai society many years ago.

[Daluke]

Interesting tree(s).

Have you got any older photos so we can see its development?

I like it.

PS Is a Bonsai tree ever finished?

[fredman]

Nah no need to remove branches. I like it. Its a good tree in its own right. Beautiful base and movement. Needs more ramification though. I would love to have something like that. All trees have faults. These aren't serious enough to start from scratch IMHO. What I don't like is the bent down branches. This is such a proud tree. I would like for it to grow more into its natural style (but that's just me) up and outwards

[treeman]

thank you Bodhidhama, I will not be following treemans advice.

That sort of severe criticism has seen me leave the bonsai society many years ago.

You said ''comments and critiques welcomed'' No one said you need to follow them and you sould not leave a club because of them.
Comments like ''excellent specimen'', ''it will be a classic tree'', and ''no need to remove branches'', I strongly disagree with.
They are simply of no use to someone who aspires to get the very best out of his trees. Couterproductive actually in my opinion.
Once again, if you are happy with it, it does not matter one iota what anyone says. But if you are looking for the best you need to strive for perfection even if you never reach it.
Bonsai Today is full of reworkings on trident maples similar to what I recommend. It's really no big deal and if it has to be done you just do it.
I never mean to offend and I don't believe my recommendations were ''severe'' just realistic.

[bodhidharma]

You said ''comments and critiques welcomed'' No one said you need to follow them and you sould not leave a club because of them.
Comments like ''excellent specimen'', ''it will be a classic tree'', and ''no need to remove branches'', I strongly disagree with.
They are simply of no use to someone who aspires to get the very best out of his trees. Couterproductive actually in my opinion.
Once again, if you are happy with it, it does not matter one iota what anyone says. But if you are looking for the best you need to strive for perfection even if you never reach it.
Bonsai Today is full of reworkings on trident maples similar to what I recommend. It's really no big deal and if it has to be done you just do it.
I never mean to offend and I don't believe my recommendations were ''severe'' just realistic.

This is the beauty of Bonsai! Everybody see's through different eye's. I agree with Mike, and Bonsai will ALWAY'S be an Art of contradiction. A Monet does not compare with a Warhol. I see a great future in this tree, as does Mike, as does Shibui, as does...etc. Just a different way of going around it. I have not seen another like it on this forum and that captures my imagination. My belief..every tree will be a great tree if the owner puts in the time and effort and learns as he goes. As i said before, i saw a lot of trees with faults in Japan but after 70-80-100 years it does not really matter. They all looked great. We all strive for different ideals.

[Truth]

In all honesty, i'm going to agree with Treeman here. There looks to be some wiring scars and swellings leading to localised inverse taper. If you want to leave it how it is, that's completely perfectly fine, you'll end up with an interesting ornamental tree. If you want a quality bonsai however, I think some trunk chops and restyling are in order.

Things that are good:
-Good nebari
-Interesting character of base
-Good movement in the trunk (relative)

Things to work on (for now):
-Taper
-Branching


I think you need to have a direction with this tree, and have a plan you're working towards. Pick a goal height, width, and style you want to pursue, and then do what is necessary to get it there. I think you'll end up with a much better specimen, and you'll be much happier with yourself with what you've achieved and can potentially show.

Take this advice/criticism how you will. No offence is intended, we're all here to help

[Boics]

Let's try to avoid getting emotional about our tree's.

I think we all need to be honest that we hope to post tree's and receive positive commentary.
In doing so we need to understand that some comments may be deemed as negative but nonetheless constructive which is positive too isn't it!?

There are many ways to skin a cat and really it depends on the owner of a tree to decide what is best for them.

* Are you after an award winning show-stopper Trident the envy of Japan? Perhaps follow Mike's advise.
* Do you want to be pleased with more minor improvements towards a nearer term goal? Maybe follow some others advise.

IMO it's all about a healthy mix for what YOU want from YOUR tree's.
Take this thread here of mine: viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13280&hilit=zelkova#p139115

I certainly didn't want to hear some of the thoughts here but hey I can't fault their intent some 3 years on...
Having said this I wasn't looking for such drastic advise (as air layering the whole top off) and wanted to move towards a more near term vision.

I must admit though that if I were wanting the best tree I could hope for the air layer option has a lot of merit..
I don't really mind that "I'm wasting time" or that there is not enough taper, or that it won't be show worthy - I'm not a member of a club and dabble in Bonsai for myself only.

My rant aside. Brian.

I think the top chunky straight bit of the LH trunk could benefit from removal / rework.
I also think a chop and taper introduction for the RH smaller trunk would help too.

Some great foundations for what is already a wonderful tree here.

[Truth]

The quickest way to introduce some solid taper into the tree would be through using some new trident maple whips, thread grafting them low and growing them out as a sacrifice branch. That way it's not too invasive and won't take as long (when compared to trunk chop and grow method). Who knows, they might even open some design options with new branching and potential trunk sites that you prefer down the line too.