AusBonsai

I've had mixed results: some catastrophic failures, some good gains...

I thought Ausbonsai was about sharing info. You are asking others to contribute results but just give us

some catastrophic failures, some good gains

?
What about putting up some real results to encourage others to do the same.

shibui wrote:

I've had mixed results: some catastrophic failures, some good gains...

I thought Ausbonsai was about sharing info. You are asking others to contribute results but just give us

some catastrophic failures, some good gains

?
What about putting up some real results to encourage others to do the same.

Perhaps my (3) catastrophic failures were really failures in technique: I did follow the general instructions accurately re amounts of DL, B&B, Osmo; foam box with more than adequate drainage, water requirements, but to no avail - (2) F. platypoda and (1) F. benjamina perished within a week...
A further (4) F. sp, in identical circumstances, did not die - but neither did they prosper, and at summer's end they were repotted into "normal" medium.
I had two good gains: (2) F. platypoda in identical circumstances actually went beserk, and between October (13) and May (14) made excellent trunk growth. I was top pruning every 2 - 3 days (after a month or so) and I root-pruned twice. Both trunks were 20mm at the onset and were 60+mm in May when I repotted both into normal medium.
We are now into November (14). Our spring here in Broken Hill has been above average temperatures. The two F. Platypoda are once again in the Hi-Fert environment.
One of these is looking okay-ish but the other is showing signs of stress.
I think perhaps one of the reasons this technique isn't proving to be positive for me, is the heat...
Full sun in Broken Hill (I've measured this) is 60deg Celsius at the ground surface in full sun: 45deg Celsius in the shade of my well established apricot tree.
And the damn HOT North Wind...
Which I think may be simply too hot for this technique...

If you are running with 60* temps JD, I'd say the potting medium is over heating and cooking the roots. Even with the insulation of the poly box it would be getting way hot inside there with no buffer in the potting medium. I reckon you would probably find even the Dynamic Lifter would be getting hot enough to cook roots. I'd be looking for a bit of shade I reckon.

hi Graeme
it's been almost 5 years now since this post started. i have seen hardly any evidence that this method is Fast. it'd be nice to see some more examples of your trees or anyone else's tree grown from this method. i am sorry if i come across a bit blunt.

regards

bonsaisensation wrote:hi Graeme
it's been almost 5 years now since this post started. i have seen hardly any evidence that this method is Fast. it'd be nice to see some more examples of your trees or anyone else's tree grown from this method. i am sorry if i come across a bit blunt.

regards

Yes, mine were not successful - I put it down to my inexperience, but maybe not...?

Graeme wrote:Looking forward to seeing your progress mate, it is a pity the pic couldn't be posted elsewhere, but I reckon enough people will see it still to enable an opinion to be made on the worth of the method.

yep opinions have been made.....

Graeme wrote:Although I said once before that I wasn't interested in supplying an example myself, I have actually got one on the go at present and am more than happy with its progress since repotting it recently. I am not sure, but I think the D.L. I was using was defective in some way. Might even take a couple of pic's myself in the next few days. Unfortunate part is, that as a photographer I make a great pastry chef.

cant wait to see the pictures from 3 years ago and how it look now Graeme. Hope you can show us all and prove your method......or...well lets not go there...

Jarrod, as was mentioned way back in the beginning of this thread, this is not my method. Here is a post from Brian, made on September 30 2012,

Brian wrote:A lot of false information here. You can rapid grow any pine, cedar, maple and fig as long as you water twice a day to stop fertilizer burn on the roots. The guy that was a pioneer in rapid growth bonsai growing techniques 30 to 40 years ago was the late Jack Tripovitch of Melbourne whom I admire and respect his technique and memory. Some elder statesmen of bonsai on this forum know what I'm on about.

I was taught this method by a Bonsai enthusiast from Adelaide many, many years ago and simply passed it on here to stimulate some conversation and experimentation. I certainly stimulated some conversation.

By the way Brian never got back to us to clear up any of the "false information", but I believe it could have concerned the types of trees that could be grown.

An interesting and potentially potential controversial topic to say the least.
I myself have not tried it but know a few who have. as I have not followed the process of them so will not comment but please remember what works for one may not work for everyone and to try for yourself and post the results

Ken

Graeme wrote:If you are running with 60* temps JD, I'd say the potting medium is over heating and cooking the roots. Even with the insulation of the poly box it would be getting way hot inside there with no buffer in the potting medium. I reckon you would probably find even the Dynamic Lifter would be getting hot enough to cook roots. I'd be looking for a bit of shade I reckon.

I reckon you've hit the nail on the head here...
Interesting to read the few posts that have been made following mine...
Seems that the method is not (after all) infallible - or perhaps even feasible...

Soon's I saw your words (above) I gave my brow a thorough slapping... remembering that all of my many numerous other bonsais and pre-bonsais are in the exact same area in my (hot) north facing back garden - and still alive after all these years... but that all of these have their bums in "normal" potting medium...
Ashamed I didn't think of this myself...

Now, how to start this? Over the past nearly 5 years a lot has been said by a lot of people about this method of Bonsai cultivation, both for and against. Some have tried the method with success, some have tried with failures and some have simply made claims the method does not work, with absolutely no first hand knowledge. For all of those 5 years I have been challenged to "put up or shut up", but I have declined because I had no need for another tree. Of course I have copped a bit of a serve for adopting that attitude as well, but honestly I did not feel I had to prove anything to anyone who was not prepared to "have a go" themselves and I felt I was being challenged so those people wouldn't have to prove themselves wrong in their assumptions that the method did not work. I guess, behind my reluctance to grow a tree to simply prove the method works was also with the thought that, should the tree die for any reason then both the method and my reputation would have been placed in ridicule and no one likes that prospect.

Following a post from Shannon recently I re-thought the situation and decided that irrespective of the positive results posted here by several Forum members, the only way to quieten the doomsayer's of this method, was to grow a tree myself. I still don't want another tree and will more than likely give this one away in a couple of years to someone who would appreciate it. I also came to the conclusion that I owed it to Jack Tripovitch to do a photo expo of the method, in order to prove him right. Even if the naysayers believe they are snipping at me, at the end of the day, it is him that is being ultimately questioned.

So, what to do? The other day while watering I looked over a few of the trees I have taking up space on my bench and decided on a likely subject. This tree is a Queensland small leaf fig (give it your own botanical name), it was grown from seed I collected just over 12 months ago from one of the trees growing in Pier Park, Urangan. It was germinated and put up into a 5" plastic pot earlier this year. It hasn't received the greatest of care, getting a bit of fertiliser sometimes and water now and again as well. It had a wayward branch cut off it around the middle of the year as it simply grew wrong. Having taken it out of the pot today I found a really strong root on the side of the cut, which explained that problem.

Anyhow, this afternoon I gathered everything I needed and got to work.
Cut holes in the bottom of the styro box. (The holes I cut are the square ones, the round ones were supplied by the box manufacturer. )

Covered the holes with small pieces of plastic mesh, I have a roll of the mesh we use in Bonsai pots, so not so expensive for me. Probably not the same for those who have to buy squares of it from a Bonsai shop I guess.

And filled the bottom of the box with 3 > 5 mm grit, There's about 2 or 3 " (50 - 75 mm) of grit in there.

The grit I used is this stuff, Which is basically sieved river sand.

Now, on top of the grit I placed the Chook poo, Blood and Bone and Controlled release fertiliser. I tipped the 8 pots of fert into a bucket and mixed it up and then straight in on top of the grit. Next in went a piece of tile. This helps the roots spread flatter and allows more precise root placement. And a small layer of grit went on the tile to help buffer the roots a little,

Next up the tree was de-potted and the roots cleaned, You can see in that pic I had 3 very large roots to contend with, which were duelly despatched to the bin, and the tree planted in position on top of the tile, after a but of a prune and defoliation, And the box filled with more grit, The rest of the box was then topped up with chook poo, given a water and placed on the bench to do it's thung. (Some hints of the products used in this pic )

What - you water it with Diet Coke ?

Thanks for taking the time to do this Graeme - I am very keen to see the results and have no doubt it will be a great success

It is, of course, my intention to keep regular updates of this tree going here in this thread. How often will depend on the tree, but I figure monthly updates might suffice, but as I said, it will depend on the tree. And yes, if it dies I will update that event as well.

I have 3 other trees undergoing this same cultivation at the present time and I'd like to show you those as well - if you don't mind.

The first is a Ficus Glomerata which I grew from seed I obtained in Adelaide 4 years ago. The seed was collected and germinated at the wrong time, but was the time I was in Adelaide. It is the only tree that germinated from 3 fruit, so I was lucky to get it. The development of the tree hasn't been what I would have liked, but considering it's start I guess I am happy. Trunk development isn't that great, but it'll do,
The second tree is a Qld small leaf fig and is actually from the same batch of seed I got the tree I did today from,
Both of the above Figs were de foliated 5 or 6 weeks ago, so foliage is still a little on the small size.

The 3rd tree is a Hibiscus. Not sure of the Bot' name, but common name is Hedging Hibiscus and has been in this box now for about 5 or 6 weeks

I don't remember the controlled release fert?
Those other figs look awesome!