Boon`s Soil Mix

[Bretts]

Although I don't wholeheartedly agree with Joel's last post. I must say Joel was there with us deciphering the perfect soil mix about 7 years ago

Scott has what I would call a good supply of akadama on the east coast from Canberra, He also has a good supplier for pumice which is all his doing ( I could never find one?)
I never found crushed granite as expensive or hard to find but Grant led me too graded rock heaven being http://www.minicreteconcrete.com.au/ Get it from here and you will not need a sifter.
Scott also needs to be congratulated for finding a pumice supplier. I have not used the one he recommends yet but it does seem very perfect from what I hear.
Understanding why and how these mediums work is just as important "Unless you have some one giving you the exact recipe to go with each mix
Okay I think I repeated myself in that last thread. Time to do more drinking and less typing

[Joel]

Although I don't wholeheartedly agree with Joel's last post. I must say Joel was there with us deciphering the perfect soil mix about 7 years ago

Yes, Brett is right. I should have stated that almost all of my trees are in 2/3 diatomite to 1/3 zeolite. I actually use the coarser zeolite as I don't get full sun at home and want to keep my mix as open as possible. I have had no issues with it holding too much water despite record rainfalls over the last 6 months. Fantastic. I am really happy. Just remember to fertilise the crap (pun slightly intended) out of it!

However, the only thing I support more than this mix is experimentation. For me, the diatomite/zeolite works a treat. It is hard to imagine an easier, cheaper and better performing mix in my conditions. Having said that, there is no harm in trying anything. Play around and see what works. I do suggest at least trying the diatomite/zeolite mix though so you can compare to that. We can use it as a sort of standard-good performing "control" for comparisons.

Joel

[Handy Mick]

Hi Reddog,
In scoop's I use
3 diatomite,
2 quality potting soil,
1 pumice,
1 sand,
1 or 2 hand full of slow release fertilizer.
I also put a hand full of soil from the last pot or from the collected site.
I collected Radiata last spring, my pots are thick with the white fungus stuff that I can't spell and roots are coming out all the holes, my trees are very healthy and I don't fertilise as often as I should
Although I don't know much about pines for the purposes of trimming and candle snapping, I do believe I have my soil right for "me".

Regards
Mick

[Luke308]

I think this thread is great as I have just got a reply from ausperl, and they have just sent their first shipment to a local supplier here in Adelaide. Diatomite is not freely available here in SA atm, but my club is making a bulk order shortly. I have used commercial grade diatomite from a friend in Melbourne which did NOT need to be sieved as it had no fines or dust what so ever!! Unfortunately this is not available anymore, so I have tried Kleensorb diatomite 2-7mm from Mt Silvia. I sieved one bag, and used it with zeolite and pine bark minis, and it seems to perform as well as the commercial grade diatomite. The 2nd bag of kleensorb I didn't sieve and just washed it in a tub then mixed it with zeolite and pine bark nuggets. The bottom of the tub was all stuck together like glue from the dust and fines which is certainly not free-draining. The only thing I hate about bonsai is having to sieve diatomite, so I try and avoid it if I can. Obviously it needs to be done, so can anyone share any quick ways of doing so? I have a 300mm diameter sieve with 3 different grades. I put 2 scoops in it and sift it, but it takes nearly half a day to do a whole bag!!! (at least a couple of hours anyway.) I have been trying to source commercial diatomite through an alterative supplier, and it looks like it may happen, but I have to wait and see.The mix I have been using thus far is 60-70% diatomite, 20-30% zeolite and 10% pine bark mini nuggets (ausgro brand). In the meantime I was thinking about using pumice from Ausperl as an alternative with zeolite, and pine bark minis. And also trying a purely inorganic mix with just pumice and zeolite. I am open to hear everyone's thoughts on this, especially Brett, Ken and Scott.

Can anyone explain the benefit of NOT having a small percentage of organics in the mix? I water everyday, and fertilise every Sunday, sometimes on Wednesday as-well (if it is a trainer in the growing season). I also use Seasol, and Go-go juice (pro-biotic for soil) But I am unsure if they are any use in an purely inorganic mix?? That is the reason why I have retained some organics in my mix, but I have personally seen great results of pines and maples in PURE diatomite!! Will zeolite retain anything from the organic tonics such as seasol and go-go juice or am I wasting my money?

Keep up the healthy debate on this one guys, as otherwise we will not learn from each other

Luke

[kcpoole]

Hi Luke
Like I say i do not sift New Diatomite, but the old stuff when I reuse it, I spread out on and old Flyscreen door and then hose it off.
Anything smaller than 1mm goes right thru onto the grass.
Takes only a couple of minutes to do a bucket full.

Ken

[kcpoole]

Luke, re the organics in the mix.
The way I think of it, if we water every day, and some even several times a day, How long will nutrients stay in the Organic particles? I would imagine, anything beneficial will be leached out in only a few weeks and then we would have to fertilize as much anyway.

The other reason for organics, will be to hold moisture. As some posts in this thread consider Diatomite / Zeolite to hold too much moisture, then I cannot see why to put more organics in to hold even more!

Koreshoffs Mix ( I think) was 80% crushed granite, 20 % Cow poo. The granite to open the mix and that held NO moisture, the poo to hold the moisture and nutrients.
When they closed up shop a few years ago, I purchased 2 Small pines from them. When I repotted them, the pot was full of what looked like round river pebbles and very little else. No organics left and plenty of roots.
Everyone used to rave that Koreshoffs Mix was the ducks guts, but I reckon there was not much going for it

Ken

[Scott Roxburgh]

In the meantime I was thinking about using pumice from Ausperl as an alternative with zeolite, and pine bark minis. And also trying a purely inorganic mix with just pumice and zeolite. I am open to hear everyone's thoughts on this, especially Brett, Ken and Scott.

Can anyone explain the benefit of NOT having a small percentage of organics in the mix?

Try the Pumice/Zeolite mix, but also try Pumice/Diatomite. I think that could be a winner!

Re: organics, I agree with Ken, bonsai soils are far beyond the use of organics.

[cre8ivbonsai]

Try the Pumice/Zeolite mix, but also try Pumice/Diatomite. I think that could be a winner!

Pumice definitely needs to be seived otherwise the smaller particles and dust turn to concrete, would you agree Scott?

[cre8ivbonsai]

Hi Reddog, after reading so much info and experiences on this site (aswell as talking to others at bonsai events) I decided to have a go myself last repotting aug/sept. After seeing my PJF suffer with clogged wet soil something needed to be done. I started out just introducing diatomite 50/50 to debco mix (which I'd used obliviously for years), but found I needed more drainage.

Then I was able to trail akadama, so to make the most of it I added it to a mix I based largely on Boon's, yet had to substitute some ingredients due to availability ...

1 part lava rock. I used hard scoria which I found available graded as 7-10mm at Daico's
1 part pumice. Couldn't locate a decent size , not included (no bigger than 2mm ) or price in Melbourne
1 part akadama. Lucky to trial a medium bag
a cup of horticultural charcoal. (easily obtained)
a cup of decomposed granite. I also found 5-7mm crushed granite (sold as crushed rock/gravel as I recall) at Daico's
Plus 1 part diatomite

I seived and graded all components to get three different sized grades. But also had to wash and dry the scoria and granite to remove the dust.

This mix has perfomered quite well, though a hotter drier summer may have had me a bit more concerned about watering . Still observing but most are doing better if not thriving

One aspect that has been overlooked in using granite is temperature regulation (IMO)

The best thing with these mixes is that you can store them dry, sealed in containers in the garage and they won't develope mould etc. You don't need top dressing gravel anymore. And when in use, there's no chance of the 'soil' drying out and going aquaphobic.

I am now experimenting with capturing and recycling water runoff

Cheers Ryan

[reddoggy]

Have just got back on the computer after put the thread on, I didn`t realize it it was such a can of worms and I am a little confused at the moment some like some don`t will have to go thru all the posts and decide for myself it seems but at least I have got a lot of ideas which I find this website very useful, THANKS GUYS it is good to get all the opinions.

[Paul W]

I think this thread is great as I have just got a reply from ausperl, and they have just sent their first shipment to a local supplier here in Adelaide. Diatomite is not freely available here in SA atm, but my club is making a bulk order shortly. I have used commercial grade diatomite from a friend in Melbourne which did NOT need to be sieved as it had no fines or dust what so ever!! Unfortunately this is not available anymore, so I have tried Kleensorb diatomite 2-7mm from Mt Silvia. I sieved one bag, and used it with zeolite and pine bark minis, and it seems to perform as well as the commercial grade diatomite. The 2nd bag of kleensorb I didn't sieve and just washed it in a tub then mixed it with zeolite and pine bark nuggets. The bottom of the tub was all stuck together like glue from the dust and fines which is certainly not free-draining. The only thing I hate about bonsai is having to sieve diatomite, so I try and avoid it if I can. Obviously it needs to be done, so can anyone share any quick ways of doing so? I have a 300mm diameter sieve with 3 different grades. I put 2 scoops in it and sift it, but it takes nearly half a day to do a whole bag!!! (at least a couple of hours anyway.) I have been trying to source commercial diatomite through an alterative supplier, and it looks like it may happen, but I have to wait and see.The mix I have been using thus far is 60-70% diatomite, 20-30% zeolite and 10% pine bark mini nuggets (ausgro brand). In the meantime I was thinking about using pumice from Ausperl as an alternative with zeolite, and pine bark minis. And also trying a purely inorganic mix with just pumice and zeolite. I am open to hear everyone's thoughts on this, especially Brett, Ken and Scott.
Can anyone explain the benefit of NOT having a small percentage of organics in the mix? I water everyday, and fertilise every Sunday, sometimes on Wednesday as-well (if it is a trainer in the growing season). I also use Seasol, and Go-go juice (pro-biotic for soil) But I am unsure if they are any use in an purely inorganic mix?? That is the reason why I have retained some organics in my mix, but I have personally seen great results of pines and maples in PURE diatomite!! Will zeolite retain anything from the organic tonics such as seasol and go-go juice or am I wasting my money?

Keep up the healthy debate on this one guys, as otherwise we will not learn from each other

Luke

Hi Reddoggy,
I hope you are getting as much out of this thread as I am, it is great to hear what all the good growers are up to.
Keep up the debate please guys

[reddoggy]

Sent you a PM Scott can I get a couple of bags off you,was thinking about coming down this month to Leighs sale weekend could I catch up with you then.
Paul

[Bretts]

Hi Luke.
I hope you read the other thread on grading your soil. I know sifting can be a bugger and there are a few ways to avoid it. Sifting out the fines and grading is not as important in your normal shaped nursery pots. Only as the pot becomes shorter and wider like a bonsai pot is drainage a real issue.
So avoid using flat or squat pots when not necessary and then take extra care on sifting/grading the trees in bonsai pots, just keep thinking how well your tree will grow in it and it should be fun
I am sure I can sift/grade a bag of diatomite within around half an hour or so. But try a bobcat load of crushed granite or bags of potting mix and then start complaining.
Also source ingredients that need less sifting /grading.
I have been using an organic fertiliser over the hotter summer months with my mostly inorganic soil but recent discussions have me also wondering if the properties of a chemical fert that is instantly available to the plant make the organic compounds pretty useless when they may be washed away before they can be utilized by the tree. I would have trouble saying that seasol would be no use but not so sure about the go go juice as it is aimed at creating microbial activity in the soil much the same as organic fertiliser. Still can't say no to that either though as I am just unsure. Maybe just use it on a couple of trees and see if you can notice any difference as I know that stuff is expensive.

I use and would recommend something like this though, I think it is every snake oil rolled into one that is designed to work instantly.
http://shop.nutri-tech.com.au/catalog/p ... f9709c0c1a

As far as soil mixes go I prefer to mix a few ingredients. I believe that any one ingedient (except for maybe a few exceptions such as akadama) is more prone to pH imbalance. So why not use a mix of pumice diatomite and zeolite. Although I still fail to see the reason why people do see to have some trouble with zeolite and although I would not leave it out I do and would recommend keeping it as a minor element. I also have gone back to using a small amount of organics. A bit more in deciduous trees than conifers. The reason for this is it will save me alot in fertilising and I don't think a small amount will harm my drainage. I will use a good amount of organics in my nursery pots/stock trees. But usually still not much with my conifers.

I think I have covered everything you asked
Good luck and get sifting

[Scott Roxburgh]

[quote="cre8ivbonsai]Pumice definitely needs to be seived otherwise the smaller particles and dust turn to concrete, would you agree Scott?[/quote]

Depending on the grade that you buy. The smaller stuff contains some sand that binds up with long term use, but the larger grades are much cleaner. Although I still grade it by sifting.

As far as soil mixes go I prefer to mix a few ingredients. I believe that any one ingedient (except for maybe a few exceptions such as akadama) is more prone to pH imbalance. So why not use a mix of pumice diatomite and zeolite. Although I still fail to see the reason why people do see to have some trouble with zeolite and although I would not leave it out I do and would recommend keeping it as a minor element. I also have gone back to using a small amount of organics. A bit more in deciduous trees than conifers. The reason for this is it will save me alot in fertilising and I don't think a small amount will harm my drainage. I will use a good amount of organics in my nursery pots/stock trees. But usually still not much with my conifers.

I think that it is fair to say there won't ever be 100% agreement on this topic, so use what works for you.

I use Boon's because it is a tried and tested mix with proven results (Boon/BIB members/Japan), I have yet to see that standard of tree with organics in the mix

[Bretts]

I am happy to agree that a pine that would not be repotted for many years may be better off with no organics at all. Of course I don't have any pines that will not be repotted for that long and if I did I might leave the organics out altogether as I have with pines over the years. Only with pines in development I find a little organics helps to keep the nutrients up and reduces the fertiliser bill which can get expensive fertilising double strength weekly.
Maybe a better system where I was dunking the trees in fert would also help but at the moment I use a little organics to reduce the fert bill.
This is why again I think the most important factor in soil choice is your care habits. Soil, water, fert and horticultural technique all combine to give the end result. You can't do everything the same for a tree that has had no roots removed to a cutting. They will have different Soil Water and fertilising regimes for the outcome to be consistent.

Boon uses fertilizer balls or such I believe and I do not because the dog gets them. Has Boon listed his other care that he uses with this mix as Walter has with his, I may be able to piece it together with his DVD's but it would be a pain in the but and I fear there could be some missing. There are many different ways. I just never like blanket statements because there are always so many variables.