Akadama
- evan
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 94
- Joined: March 24th, 2014, 2:05 pm
- Favorite Species: Anything Shohin
- Bonsai Age: 9
- Bonsai Club: Nepean Bonsai Society, The School of Bonsai
- Location: Sydney
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 21 times
Re: Akadama
I've extensively studied soil sciences in uni. I'll have a go at classifying it tomorrow. Also clay "heaviness" is entirely dependent on how high the clay content is not organic matter.
Last edited by evan on March 6th, 2017, 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- squizzy
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: March 2nd, 2011, 4:12 pm
- Favorite Species: pines
- Bonsai Age: 10
- Location: sydney
- Has thanked: 20 times
- Been thanked: 11 times
Re: Akadama
Cheers Evan. Only if it's not a giant hassle. I have been reading a heap on clays tonight and there definitions. It's an interesting subject for sure.
Thanks again
Squizzy
Thanks again
Squizzy
1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55..............................
- treeman
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2842
- Joined: August 15th, 2011, 4:47 pm
- Favorite Species: any
- Bonsai Age: 25
- Location: melbourne
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 577 times
Re: Akadama
It won't remain as free draining as sandy loam once it breaks down simply because of the difference in particle sizes between clay and sand. Even the finest sands are hundreds of times larger than clayparticles. (silt is somewhere in between) They used to use straight sandy loam to pot up all manner of things in the old days. Although it remained wet for a long time, drainage still seemed to be satisfactory. They still use it here and there. As for the Akadama, I'm not sure of it's exact classification, but it's basically a red volcanic subsoil which is common to many parts of the world including Australia. Red hill on the Mornington Peninsula, King Lake, the Dandenong Ranges, they all have it by the mountain load. I once collected some from a King Lake pine plantation which had been churned up with heavy machinery. Once sieved and dried, I used it in a few pots with excellent results. No breakdown of the particles after two years in the pot. What seems to be important is to protect the exposed surface with some kind of mulch (moss or standard p/mix) as the action of water constantly hitting it tends to break the particles up leading to a layer which does not drain well. Lower down in the pot however, the particles remain unchanged.squizzy wrote:My reason for wanting to know this is that in the event it does break down I would like to know it remains free draining like a sandy loam.
Squizzy
Mike
- squizzy
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: March 2nd, 2011, 4:12 pm
- Favorite Species: pines
- Bonsai Age: 10
- Location: sydney
- Has thanked: 20 times
- Been thanked: 11 times
Re: Akadama
Cheers tree man. I thought there would have to be an untapped resource here. I assume it's the partial size that defines a silt from a clay but other reading has said clays have a higher alumina and silica content. Is this your understanding.
Squizzy
Squizzy
1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55..............................
- kcpoole
- Perpetual Learner
- Posts: 12272
- Joined: November 12th, 2008, 4:02 pm
- Favorite Species: Maple
- Bonsai Age: 15
- Bonsai Club: the School Of Bonsai
- Location: Western Sydney, NSW, Australia
- Has thanked: 17 times
- Been thanked: 84 times
- Contact:
Re: Akadama
Another thing to note about Akadama, is that is produced in different hardnesses,
We have available "Hard Akadama" which has been dried / baked @ 300deg. soft Akadama has not been treated as such.
I assume the product you refer to Treeman would be classed as soft Akadama if not baked?
Ken
We have available "Hard Akadama" which has been dried / baked @ 300deg. soft Akadama has not been treated as such.
I assume the product you refer to Treeman would be classed as soft Akadama if not baked?
Ken
Check out our Wiki for awesome bonsai information www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki
What is Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Bonsai
What should I do now? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie
How do I grow a Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _a_Bonsai?
Visit a Bonsai nursery to see some real nice trees http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _Nurseries
What is Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Bonsai
What should I do now? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie
How do I grow a Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _a_Bonsai?
Visit a Bonsai nursery to see some real nice trees http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _Nurseries
- treeman
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2842
- Joined: August 15th, 2011, 4:47 pm
- Favorite Species: any
- Bonsai Age: 25
- Location: melbourne
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 577 times
Re: Akadama
I would have to get the books out for that one.squizzy wrote:Cheers tree man. I thought there would have to be an untapped resource here. I assume it's the partial size that defines a silt from a clay but other reading has said clays have a higher alumina and silica content. Is this your understanding.
Squizzy
Mike
- treeman
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2842
- Joined: August 15th, 2011, 4:47 pm
- Favorite Species: any
- Bonsai Age: 25
- Location: melbourne
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 577 times
Re: Akadama
Yes. I think they use the baked for pines and the soft or deciduous right?kcpoole wrote:Another thing to note about Akadama, is that is produced in different hardnesses,
We have available "Hard Akadama" which has been dried / baked @ 300deg. soft Akadama has not been treated as such.
I assume the product you refer to Treeman would be classed as soft Akadama if not baked?
Ken
Mike
- evan
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 94
- Joined: March 24th, 2014, 2:05 pm
- Favorite Species: Anything Shohin
- Bonsai Age: 9
- Bonsai Club: Nepean Bonsai Society, The School of Bonsai
- Location: Sydney
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 21 times
Re: Akadama
It's solely particle size that is the difference between sands, silts, and clays. There are some clays that are further sub classified because of their chemical compositions.squizzy wrote:Cheers tree man. I thought there would have to be an untapped resource here. I assume it's the partial size that defines a silt from a clay but other reading has said clays have a higher alumina and silica content. Is this your understanding.
Squizzy
- treeman
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2842
- Joined: August 15th, 2011, 4:47 pm
- Favorite Species: any
- Bonsai Age: 25
- Location: melbourne
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 577 times
Re: Akadama
This dude is using sandy loam to pot up a wisteria. Rough as guts but seems to work for him. Some things seem to like tight soil. Wisteria and flowering quince are two I can think of...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SUCjLlrSEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SUCjLlrSEA
Mike
- squizzy
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: March 2nd, 2011, 4:12 pm
- Favorite Species: pines
- Bonsai Age: 10
- Location: sydney
- Has thanked: 20 times
- Been thanked: 11 times
Re: Akadama
Hi treeman,
I had this discussion with someone about Japanese maples. I have noticed that Japanese maples do better in a tight soil. It is very limited experiment from me as I have only grown a handful in my time. What is yours or others experience with this?
Evan. Just to clarify what is the component of clay that gives it stickiness. Also is clay entirely mineral?
squizz
I had this discussion with someone about Japanese maples. I have noticed that Japanese maples do better in a tight soil. It is very limited experiment from me as I have only grown a handful in my time. What is yours or others experience with this?
Evan. Just to clarify what is the component of clay that gives it stickiness. Also is clay entirely mineral?
squizz
1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55..............................
- treeman
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2842
- Joined: August 15th, 2011, 4:47 pm
- Favorite Species: any
- Bonsai Age: 25
- Location: melbourne
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 577 times
Re: Akadama
I would be careful of using to tight a soil for J maples. You might experience root rot with that. I find they do quite well in a coarse mix as long as they get watered in good time. I do believe that older trees of all kinds do hold more fine detail with a finer mix than is currently used by some and using actual soil (clay) seems to help.squizzy wrote:Hi treeman,
I had this discussion with someone about Japanese maples. I have noticed that Japanese maples do better in a tight soil. It is very limited experiment from me as I have only grown a handful in my time. What is yours or others experience with this?
squizz
Mike