TRIDENT MAPLE NEW PURCHASE

raewynk · Post by **raewynk** » July 23rd, 2014, 11:21 pm

I bought this a few weeks ago. Arrived bare rooted. So I've put it straight into the bonsai pot. Didn't have the room to put into the gardens. Love some advice on shaping the top. The feeder roots are fantastic. Just starting some movement on the branches. This is a 7 year old tree. 42 cm bonsai pot, a bit of an over kill, but in it for life.

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Brian · Post by **Brian** » July 24th, 2014, 4:59 pm

mate, join the local bonsai club and get some friendly advice.

I see issues with the roots which should be attended to now. Also the trunk needs severe chopping to encourage taper.

Andrew Legg · Post by **Andrew Legg** » July 24th, 2014, 7:43 pm

Ray,

I'd do the following to this tree if it was mine.

1.) Decide if you want a broomstyle tree, and if so keep but shorten both trunks.
2.) If not, I'd cut it back as shown below.

Maple.jpg

I don't fully agree with Brian on needing to chop it low, but that's always going to be a matter of opinion. You can get girth by feeding it heavily and giving it room to grow, and taper can be developed by using sacrifice branches.

Where I do agree with Brian is that the roots need work. Personally I'd ground layer the tree as low as possible and create a completely new set of roots altogether. This technique is easy as pie, well covered in many spots on the web and you'd do well to take advice and get it done early on in the tree's development cycle. Now is a good time. The alternative is to root graft, but you'll need about 7 young flexible trees to do that, and it's a bit more tricky.

Cheers,

Andrew

Post by **kcpoole** » July 24th, 2014, 8:06 pm

Already started a sketch before the others chimed in, but agree with andrew

Caveate being that i prefer taller more slender trees so see no need to cut low and start again.
cut back to the main trunkline then regrow the branches and fix the roots either by layering or grafting.

Ken

Andrew Legg · Post by **Andrew Legg** » July 24th, 2014, 8:33 pm

Ken.jpg

Elmar · Post by **Elmar** » July 24th, 2014, 9:09 pm

Ahh Ryan Neil did say the Australian style would develop an upward and outward style...

Cheers
EZ
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Post by **kcpoole** » July 25th, 2014, 12:17 am

Andrew Legg wrote:

Ken.jpg

Actually after I posted I thought I should have drawn the branches pointing more vertical,

that is the problem with Quickie verts in between writing quotes

Agree totally Andrew and thanks for ammending it

Ken

raewynk · Post by **raewynk** » July 25th, 2014, 4:04 pm

Brian, Thank you for the reply, I don't have a bonsai club near me. I was wondering what your concern with the roots are? If you have time to explain please.
When the trident came to me it was bare rooted. It had a few very strong roots and a lot of feeders. I trimmed the larger roots mainly to fit it into the pot and left the feeders to develop for the sake of the plant. I would be interested in your view on the roots.
Another option I thought of was root over rock, with the way the roots are at present, an option?

Andrew, the broom style appeals to me. I had a brain wave of wedging the two major branches further apart and developing a canopy for the broom, ideally I am thinking the canopy should line up to the outer lip of the pot that it is planted in.

Ken, thank you but I am not a fan of the tall slender trees. I much prefer the fuller canopy on the Trident mainly because of the straight line of the trunks and the expansive display of the colour in the autumn. That's just me. Loved the virtual.

I do agree the branches should more vertical and up ward.

I was also thinking after reading all of the replies, that to develop a jin on a sacrifice branch and full broom the canopy extending to the line of the outer lip of the pot. But not too sure if I am correct. Relying on honest and blunt replies, from the forum please. Not sure if I would take but I will learn as with other persons also.

I do have some unconventional ideas.
This is part of the description I bought the plant on:

The trunk is 32mm across and 12cms tall
Overall it is 37cms high and 27cms across
The trunk is starting to buttress
Roots are 13cm high & the top 4cm would look good exposed
The biggest root is 20mm across

Regards
Rae Big thank you for all the input.

DustyRusty · Post by **DustyRusty** » July 25th, 2014, 4:11 pm

raewynk wrote:I was also thinking after reading all of the replies, that to develop a jin on a sacrifice branch and full broom the canopy extending to the line of the outer lip of the pot.

My

I read Walter Pall once write that in nature you only ever really see jins on conifers. On deciduous trees you tend to see hollows and deadwood instead. From my observations this is pretty spot on. I'd avoid putting a jin on a maple if you can help it. But then again, it's your tree.

raewynk · Post by **raewynk** » July 25th, 2014, 4:21 pm

Thank you for pointing the jin aptitude. Dustyrusty.

I will have to revise my option.

Regards
Rae

Andrew Legg · Post by **Andrew Legg** » July 25th, 2014, 6:36 pm

Hi Rae,

The following all caveatted with the single point that what is desirable to you and what is considered "correct" visually may differ, and in this case, the former is the route you should go.

Roots: Usually it is desirable to have a spread of roughly even roots radiating from the trunk like rays of light. This is of course the "standard" design for these deciduous trees, but it's basically for two reasons. First, it just seems to look nice, and second it makes the tree look older and "better connected" to the earth. Basically, we are talking the difference between good functional roots, and roots that function well, but look good visually. My opinion is that root over rock on a tall tree would not be visually pleasing as the rock would get a bit lost.

Your ideas on broom canopy are fine, but then I'd cut both trunks back quite a lot. The main problem with the trunk that I suggested cutting off is that it is very straight, and this is often undesirable, but on broom style trees it can be ok.

Jins on deciduous trees are not often done. The primary reason is that in nature deciduous trees normally have softer wood, and dead branches typically rot away and fall off. This is different to the harder wood normally displayed by evergreens like junipers etc.

If this was my tree, I'd design it a bit like this using just the one trunk.

tree.jpg

raewynk · Post by **raewynk** » July 25th, 2014, 7:31 pm

Andrew,
that makes a lot of sense.
Now I will have to revise my vision for this tree.
Re-create the roots.

I am sort of leaning to let the foliage develop for this year and then do the trim and chop on the tree.

My idea in this I can then see the before and after for a learning curb.

My first Trident Maple, love to see the full canopy and the go from there and see which and how to trim and chop.

Hope that makes sense.

Nice virtual big thank you, for that and the explaination of the recommendations on the roots.

Regards
Rae

PPS: if this is the result I get for a post on a Trident Maple love to see the response I get when I post on the European Olive that I've got in stock.

Andrew Legg · Post by **Andrew Legg** » July 26th, 2014, 12:25 am

Hey Rae,

Just remember one thing mate. These trees are grown for ourselves, so we must be happy with them, not others. Ain't nothing wrong with giving it a season. Feed it well, and let it grow strongly. It will respond so much better to all the work if you do. The bonus with this is that you know the tree is in good health when you do the work. It will also give you time to take some cuttings and grow these on for root stock to improve the rooting system.

All in the name of fun huh.

I have something I have written (well I'm actually busy writing it) and I'd like you to read it. Can you PM me an e-mail address?

Cheers,

Andrew

raewynk · Post by **raewynk** » July 26th, 2014, 10:19 am

Maybe I am getting older or wiser reading the forum from more experienced people waiting pays off sometime before I make hasty decisions on this tree some many possibilities.

Thank you for the tips and opinions.
I will keep you posted on the progress.

Regards
Rae

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raewynk · Post by **raewynk** » February 15th, 2015, 5:22 pm

Been close to a year. Foliage a bit rough had to prune the root last night. Its got a bit of wind burn to the leaves.
Question for all still stands how would you carve this one up given twin trunks. What would you use to carve it.
Also another thought how would you wedge the two trunks apart to increase the size of the canopy if I serenity to keep twin trunks. ALL opinions welcome. I am considering all options at this stage
Cheers
Rae
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