Beech suggestions

Forum for discussion of Deciduous bonsai – Maples, Crabapple, Hornbeam, Elm species etc.

Beech suggestions

Postby CraigM » December 31st, 2014, 3:45 pm

Hi,

Purchased this tree short while ago at one of the sales, was going to give it a style but am unsure of direction. The existing branches are fairly thick, and not really at the angle I would have liked (also has some wire damage), also the roots are uneven and very flat. Suggestions would be appreciated.

Should I defoliate the tree now to give a better view of the structure?

IMG_0853_edited.jpg

IMG_0854_edited.jpg

IMG_0856_edited.jpg

IMG_0858_edited.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
CraigM
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
 
Posts: 315
Joined: February 25th, 2014, 10:23 pm
Location: Melbourne
Bonsai Age: 20
Bonsai Club: Waverley, Vic Native and BSV

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby treeman » January 2nd, 2015, 1:31 pm

Craig, I would not touch this tree now at all. Wait until late winter. You might have to pull the old leaves off because they hold on to them.
Beech do not respond well to normal defoliation. However there is a defoliation techinque that works well.
The timing is very important.
Towards the end of the season when there is still potential growing time left (early april here) you cut off the leaves but you leave a small triangular shaped peice of leaf at base of the the stem. It's very impotant that you remove the tip of every branch ( at least the large bud at the end of the branch ) and you defoliate the entire tree.
If all goes well (and a nice healthy tree like yours) it will produce hundreds of buds all over the place. If you have timed it correctly, these buds will remain dormant until the following spring.
Thin the buds as you see fit and keep well shaded.
Prune in winter and remember to pinch soft new growth as usual for beech.

As far as styling....well the tree will tell you but I would say prune rather than wire most of the time.
Mike
User avatar
treeman
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
 
Posts: 1735
Joined: August 15th, 2011, 4:47 pm
Location: melbourne
Favorite Species: any
Bonsai Age: 25

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby Josh » January 2nd, 2015, 4:57 pm

treeman wrote:Craig, I would not touch this tree now at all. Wait until late winter. You might have to pull the old leaves off because they hold on to them.
Beech do not respond well to normal defoliation. However there is a defoliation techinque that works well.
The timing is very important.
Towards the end of the season when there is still potential growing time left (early april here) you cut off the leaves but you leave a small triangular shaped peice of leaf at base of the the stem. It's very impotant that you remove the tip of every branch ( at least the large bud at the end of the branch ) and you defoliate the entire tree.
If all goes well (and a nice healthy tree like yours) it will produce hundreds of buds all over the place. If you have timed it correctly, these buds will remain dormant until the following spring.
Thin the buds as you see fit and keep well shaded.
Prune in winter and remember to pinch soft new growth as usual for beech.

As far as styling....well the tree will tell you but I would say prune rather than wire most of the time.


Interesting comments on defoliating Treeman. I have a beech here I was wondering about defoliating so might give this a go. Glad your in Melbourne so April suits me. The tree was pruned and repotted last winter so looking to get ramification on it this year. Thanks for the advice.

Josh.
User avatar
Josh
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
 
Posts: 1492
Images: 0
Joined: January 9th, 2012, 9:28 pm
Location: Mornington Peninsular, VIc
Favorite Species: pines
Bonsai Age: 4
Bonsai Club: Mt Waverly

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby CraigM » January 2nd, 2015, 11:31 pm

Thanks treeman for suggestions will keep in mind for future. I have already partially defoliated the tree so that the structure is visible... oops hopefully ok.

Was looking around on the web and seems to be a lot of conflicting ideas, some say no, Walter Pall on the other hand seems to defoliate his in summer, as long as the tree is healthy, with fantastic results. Also found another link below that talks about partial defoliation. Figured the partial defoliation was somewhere in between, also like the proposed extension of the buds further back on the branches.

Will fertilize and continue watering and see what happens. Think I will reduce the height of the tree now as well.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Beechadvancedpruning.htm

Here's the latest picture, was studying the branches earlier and perhaps not as bad as originally thought, need some pruning and thinning out below.

IMG_0926_edited.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
CraigM
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
 
Posts: 315
Joined: February 25th, 2014, 10:23 pm
Location: Melbourne
Bonsai Age: 20
Bonsai Club: Waverley, Vic Native and BSV

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby kcpoole » January 3rd, 2015, 8:27 am

Some nice aspects to that tree Craig.
Maybe just shorten t he top trunk section to improve taper. to me it is too long and straightish

Can you ground layer or root graft to improve Nebari?

Ken
User avatar
kcpoole
Perpetual Learner
Perpetual Learner
 
Posts: 11785
Images: 10
Joined: November 12th, 2008, 4:02 pm
Location: Western Sydney, NSW, Australia
Favorite Species: Maple
Bonsai Age: 15
Bonsai Club: the School Of Bonsai

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby CraigM » January 9th, 2015, 2:43 pm

Thanks Ken, think ground layering is the way to go. Have been looking at the tree and have decided on a front, and reduced the height and branches to create taper. Now to leave the tree to grow, and will look to layering in spring.

IMG_0937_edited.jpg

IMG_0939_edited.jpg
:fc:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
CraigM
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
 
Posts: 315
Joined: February 25th, 2014, 10:23 pm
Location: Melbourne
Bonsai Age: 20
Bonsai Club: Waverley, Vic Native and BSV

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby Boics » January 9th, 2015, 10:09 pm

Nice sketch!
This will be good to watch.
I look forward to your updates.
One of the fabulous things about growing bonsai is as you get old and decrepit your trees get old and beautiful
User avatar
Boics
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
 
Posts: 1920
Joined: September 27th, 2012, 6:16 pm
Location: Victoria Inner City Fringe
Favorite Species: Banksia, Syzygium, Cotoneaster.
Bonsai Age: 5

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby CraigM » February 4th, 2015, 10:25 pm

Hi,

Quick update on the defoliation. As you can see below the tree responded with vigor. Over the last month, the majority of the internal buds sprouted and started growing. Will thin out a little to allow some light to enter, and leave the growth to harden for the rest of the season... spring time ground layering :fc:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
CraigM
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
 
Posts: 315
Joined: February 25th, 2014, 10:23 pm
Location: Melbourne
Bonsai Age: 20
Bonsai Club: Waverley, Vic Native and BSV

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby kcpoole » February 5th, 2015, 6:36 am

Nice Response to your treatment :yes:
Don't you just love it when it works :fc: :lol:

Ken
User avatar
kcpoole
Perpetual Learner
Perpetual Learner
 
Posts: 11785
Images: 10
Joined: November 12th, 2008, 4:02 pm
Location: Western Sydney, NSW, Australia
Favorite Species: Maple
Bonsai Age: 15
Bonsai Club: the School Of Bonsai

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby CraigM » September 2nd, 2015, 10:28 pm

Ground layering done, followed Ray M's approach, now the wait begins. Technically everything went to plan so happy.

Really battled stripping the bark and green cambium layer beneath, was really tough. Is this normal for beech, or perhaps due to the tree not actively growing yet?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
CraigM
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
 
Posts: 315
Joined: February 25th, 2014, 10:23 pm
Location: Melbourne
Bonsai Age: 20
Bonsai Club: Waverley, Vic Native and BSV

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby CraigM » July 20th, 2016, 11:03 pm

Treeman's recent layer post has made me really eager to have a look at the beech I did around the same time. Is it too early to separate now, was originally planning middle August?

Have seen a couple thin roots sticking out below the pot around the layer, hope sufficient to separate. Not getting hopes up too high.
CraigM
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
 
Posts: 315
Joined: February 25th, 2014, 10:23 pm
Location: Melbourne
Bonsai Age: 20
Bonsai Club: Waverley, Vic Native and BSV

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby Webos » July 21st, 2016, 9:20 am

I did a very similar layer to a Celtis. At about this time I very carefully teased the soil away from the layer to find I'd been successful. If not successful, my plan was to replace the soil and grow for another season.

Adam
User avatar
Webos
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
 
Posts: 1203
Joined: July 15th, 2009, 12:05 pm
Location: Southern Vic
Favorite Species: Juniper
Bonsai Age:
Bonsai Club: Southern Vic Bonsai Club

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby anthonyW » July 21st, 2016, 10:29 am

Fantastic work there Craig,game plan looks on song..well done
Anthony
anthonyW
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
 
Posts: 422
Joined: May 19th, 2011, 1:35 pm
Location: NSW
Favorite Species: Figs,Pines.
Bonsai Age:

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby bodhidharma » July 21st, 2016, 5:07 pm

I have to agree with the compliments. The tree is coming along as to your plan and should become a nice tree with some years on it.
"Advice is rarely welcome, and the one's who need it the most welcome it the least"
User avatar
bodhidharma
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
 
Posts: 4911
Images: 12
Joined: August 13th, 2009, 1:14 pm
Location: Daylesford, Victoria....Central Highlands
Favorite Species: English Elm
Bonsai Age: 23
Bonsai Club: goldfields

Re: Beech suggestions

Postby shibui » July 21st, 2016, 6:23 pm

Is it too early to separate now, was originally planning middle August?

Middle of August is only a couple of weeks away Craig. Not sure whether there is any advantage but I'd be inclined to wait another week or 2. I think Webos has the right idea. Take off the collar and scrape away some of the potting mix to see if there are roots. I don't think you'll be able to get right up close to the trunk because you've used Ray's mud mix but you should still be able to see the roots coming out of it into the potting mix.
I have always been astounded at how few roots a layer needs to survive after removal from the parent.

Good luck
shibui
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
 
Posts: 4193
Images: 24
Joined: August 22nd, 2009, 8:41 pm
Location: Yackandandah
Favorite Species: trident maple
Bonsai Age: 33
Bonsai Club: Albury/Wodonga; BSV; Canberra; VNBC

Next

Return to Deciduous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No Members and 5 guests

cron