Advice on a Chinese elm
- ben17487
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Advice on a Chinese elm
Hey all, I'm scratching my head over what to do with this one, it was my first tree, a gift from my girlfriend which got me into it all.
But it has so much going wrong with it..
I hate the cork screw but even if I remove it it still has a huge reverse tapered section.
Ive done nothing with it from the beginning except trim it and try to hide the twist.
Should I just chop it entirely and start from scratch or anyone got some ideas of how I can make something of it?
I'm considering making it a root over rock on the next repot.
Cheers,
Ben
But it has so much going wrong with it..
I hate the cork screw but even if I remove it it still has a huge reverse tapered section.
Ive done nothing with it from the beginning except trim it and try to hide the twist.
Should I just chop it entirely and start from scratch or anyone got some ideas of how I can make something of it?
I'm considering making it a root over rock on the next repot.
Cheers,
Ben
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Re: Advice on a Chinese elm
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I hate the cork screw but even if I remove it it still has a huge reverse tapered section.
If there is nothing much going for the tree just cut it off and start again. Elms will shoot readily from any stump so you can cut it anywhere you think looks ok and it will grow new shoots. From what I can see in the photos I'd probably cut just below the lowest branch. That will get rid of both your problems in one go. It will then be up to you to manage the new growth to achieve something better. While you are at it I'd cut off those roots above the ground. They will only make the trunk thick at that pont so you'll have reverse taper problems again but lower down. Hopefully there will be better roots below soil level.
What would that solve? You'd just have the same poor tree on a rockI'm considering making it a root over rock on the next repot.
Hard to say from this distance. the trunk has very little of value but I can only see the bits you have given us to look at. There may be other angles where it looks ok but I can't see so can't offer advice.anyone got some ideas of how I can make something of it?
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- ben17487
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Re: Advice on a Chinese elm
Thanks for the advice shibui, I thought that may have been the only really option.
The root over rock suggestion was merely that I'd like to start one, may build the trunk instead as you said it is rather uninteresting.
Cheers,
Ben
The root over rock suggestion was merely that I'd like to start one, may build the trunk instead as you said it is rather uninteresting.
Cheers,
Ben
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Re: Advice on a Chinese elm
Root over rock brings a whole lot more problems in getting the roots and rock looking good. Every new feature that you add to a bonsai - root over rock; multi trunk, etc - multiplies the difficulty of getting a good bonsai at the end. No point in starting with an already flawed trunk By all means grow root over rock bonsai but it is hard enough already to get all the aspects - rock, roots, trunk, branches looking good and in harmony so at least start off with something that does not already have problems.
I would be happy to cut a Chinese elm now if you decide to go ahead with the decapitation. Otherwise leave it until late winter/ early spring
I would be happy to cut a Chinese elm now if you decide to go ahead with the decapitation. Otherwise leave it until late winter/ early spring
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Re: Advice on a Chinese elm
When I struggle with a tree, I tend to put it in the ground and allow it to grow for a year. It improves the taper and plenty of new branches to work with. It will also improve the cut marks on the tree and improve nebari and bark.
I don't think cutting this down will make much difference. I would first rather field grow it for a bit.
Cheers.
I don't think cutting this down will make much difference. I would first rather field grow it for a bit.
Cheers.
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Re: Advice on a Chinese elm
Hi Ben,
I wholeheartedly agree with Shibui. It will actually be quicker to develop a good tree by doing a big chop. Being a Chinese Elm it will respond quite well.
I would do a slip pot into a larger pot. Feed it with Seasol for a week and then do the chop. As Shibui mentioned, you will need to manage the tree after doing the chop. You need to choose a new leader when you get new shoots and don't let the area where you choped it fatten up to prevent a knob or reverse taper accruing. Keep the Seasol up to it after doing the chop.
Regards Ray
I wholeheartedly agree with Shibui. It will actually be quicker to develop a good tree by doing a big chop. Being a Chinese Elm it will respond quite well.
I would do a slip pot into a larger pot. Feed it with Seasol for a week and then do the chop. As Shibui mentioned, you will need to manage the tree after doing the chop. You need to choose a new leader when you get new shoots and don't let the area where you choped it fatten up to prevent a knob or reverse taper accruing. Keep the Seasol up to it after doing the chop.
Regards Ray
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- kcpoole
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Re: Advice on a Chinese elm
What about a chop just above the branch above where Ray suggested?
That way you might be able to use that branch as the new apex too.
Ken
That way you might be able to use that branch as the new apex too.
Ken
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- ben17487
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Re: Advice on a Chinese elm
Thanks very much for the feedback everyone, shibui and Ray's ideas are what I'm likely to go with.
If I do as you suggest ken, it will leave scaring on both sides of the trunk.. Will this be a huge issue? I've somewhat witnessed the pace of healing on these trees and it does seem fairly quick.. Could be an interesting direction for the tree.
I'm also not super informed of how to style after a trunk chop, should I leave one shoot from the cut area and remove others that may pop up?
Cheers,
Ben
If I do as you suggest ken, it will leave scaring on both sides of the trunk.. Will this be a huge issue? I've somewhat witnessed the pace of healing on these trees and it does seem fairly quick.. Could be an interesting direction for the tree.
I'm also not super informed of how to style after a trunk chop, should I leave one shoot from the cut area and remove others that may pop up?
Cheers,
Ben
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Re: Advice on a Chinese elm
There is no one correct answer to this. It depends what you are after. For most styles just leave 2 shoots. 1 becomes the future trunk. the other is grown as a branch. BUT... If you want broom style you usually keep several shoots to give multi trunk canopy (note that broom style usually has a straight vertical trunk from roots to branches) BUT... if the trunk chop is too low for a first branch there is no point keeping a branch so just let one shoot grow as an extension of the existing trunk.I'm also not super informed of how to style after a trunk chop, should I leave one shoot from the cut area and remove others that may pop up?
Try to have some vision of what you expect to grow and work towards it.
You can always change your mind later and prune/ cut/ grow again later, esp if first choice does not seem to be working
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- ben17487
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Re: Advice on a Chinese elm
Hey guys I ended up attaching this one to a rock just to give it a go...
My intended design at this stage.
Anyway the tree is beginning to break buds and I'm wondering if now is the best time to chop the trunk to begin the new direction.
Can anyone advise the best timing?
I also have a bunch of CE root cutting from a few different trees that I'm hoping will sprout, but I'm unsure of how the cut should be treated. I put cut paste on some and nothing on others. The ones with cut paste I'm worried the buds will be blocked and the ones without seem to be drying out quite a bit.. Any advice on that would be helpful too
Thanks very much!
Ben
My intended design at this stage.
Anyway the tree is beginning to break buds and I'm wondering if now is the best time to chop the trunk to begin the new direction.
Can anyone advise the best timing?
I also have a bunch of CE root cutting from a few different trees that I'm hoping will sprout, but I'm unsure of how the cut should be treated. I put cut paste on some and nothing on others. The ones with cut paste I'm worried the buds will be blocked and the ones without seem to be drying out quite a bit.. Any advice on that would be helpful too
Thanks very much!
Ben
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Re: Advice on a Chinese elm
Hi Ben,
Worry not about buds on your root cuttings being blocked by the cut paste - they will grow right through it... I have a few starting to come through now just to prove it. They seem to take a bit longer to kick off than a standard cutting, so give them a bit more time...
I'm guessing your elm doesn't lose its leaves over winter huh? A trunk chop is ideal during the dormant period (winter - no leaves etc...) - which is pretty close to ending so get in there. That's my Good luck.
PS: nice sketch!
Worry not about buds on your root cuttings being blocked by the cut paste - they will grow right through it... I have a few starting to come through now just to prove it. They seem to take a bit longer to kick off than a standard cutting, so give them a bit more time...
I'm guessing your elm doesn't lose its leaves over winter huh? A trunk chop is ideal during the dormant period (winter - no leaves etc...) - which is pretty close to ending so get in there. That's my Good luck.
PS: nice sketch!
Last edited by Ryceman3 on August 25th, 2016, 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- ben17487
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Re: Advice on a Chinese elm
Thanks very much ryceman
This one was still growing half way through winter.. Only just started slowing down a few weeks before I repotted. I have others that lost almost all their leaves though, every tree is different I guess!
Thanks for clearing up my questions!
This one was still growing half way through winter.. Only just started slowing down a few weeks before I repotted. I have others that lost almost all their leaves though, every tree is different I guess!
Thanks for clearing up my questions!
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Re: Advice on a Chinese elm
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