Monstrous olive

[James93A]

The problem with James's tree is that it has been cut off flat on top. More on that later.....

I don't see an issue with the flat cut off treeman, if carving is performed correctly it can look natural and effective. Who's to say a bonsai must conform to a traditional standard? Bonsai has evolved past this now, look to Japan, they have trees that are large and break traditional structuring. I also don't see an issue with the tree shown below. This looks good in the now and in future it will be even better with further refinement. It will be trimmed properly to cultivate proper branch structure along the way - As well as keeping a strong vigour from having more foliage during the growing season instead of constant hard cut backs. Does a tree in nature receive a constant hard prune every 3 years? No, it does not and most of the time, a tree in nature will not have ideal branching by a traditional bonsai standard but it still looks good. The way that this is trained is by having one branch to start with as a placement, so I think you may as well make it look good.
Realistically what is show worthy? People are putting their bonsai on display in shows that have been in training for under 5 years time in Australia, who's to say they don't look good? A tree in training for 35 years can look as good as a tree in training for 5 if the training is not effective.

Here is a magnificent old trunk which unfortunately has been rushed and forced to conform to a standard modern Japanese Juniper type image. A real pity I think and in my mind no thought whatsoever given.
This would be the absolute last thing I would pursue. (but I would kill for that trunk!)

olive5.JPG

Would you have a picture of the olive you've had in training for "20 years"? What procedures have you taken with it each year to continue it's development. Surely after 20 years it must look a treat.

Regards,
James

[treeman]

This is it. It was originally cut at the marked spots more than twenty years ago. As you can see, it has a long way to go and eventually I would like to open it up by removing branches. This particular plant is very slow and rigid. Probably the worst kind I've seen! With yours, If you decide to go all the way with it, I would consider finding a good wood carving artist and pay him/her to properly carve the dead wood part. This should be done by hand IMO and any power tools should be kept well away from it. Rather than remove all wood, carve detail into it.

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[James93A]

Looks great Mike, I like the base and trunks on this one. Thanks for taking the time to show. I feel like that bottom right hand branch could do with some more negative space - is that where you wanted to remove branching?

I'm sure. I was planning on getting some practice in with a teacher before carving away, see how it goes.. Would it be hard to strip away wood without power tools? They seem to have an incredibly hard wood.

Regards
James

[RogerW]

Three man lift for the tree (with high risk of back pain) add four man lift pot plus growing medium = recruitment of significant help (superman).

[Nate.bonsai]

I just came across these two, which seem to have had a similar-ish starting point. Food for thought.

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[Watto]

Good on you James. Every project is a learning experience, and from this you should learn heaps. I do understand that bigger doesn't mean better, however the majority of really impressive trees currently doing the rounds in international circles are of the larger variety. That is generally because there is more to work with. It is not to say there is anything wrong with smaller trees.

[Max]

that's what i tell my missus Watto

[addict2bonsai]

Go for it with this large trunk as it looks like it will have leaves that reduce down well.
It will be hard to decide which design to go with ie single large tree or mountainside sakei style. Check out some of the European websites.
Over time a large bonsai that is exhibited at a large event will be special and worth the logistical nightmare.
In Perth AABC National Convention in 2011 we displayed a large olive that was driven into the exhibition hall on the back of a ute and driven out afterwards using roller system to get it across onto the ute from the nursery.

Be aware that there will be dieback down to a shoot so get shoots higher up before you cut a branch off and slowly reduce down

[Muddy]

It will be hard to decide which design to go with ie single large tree or mountainside sakei style.

It's Saikei. I just learned this because I searched images for "Sakei style"

[Graeme]

So, I read the question, I've read many of the answers and now I have a question for you James. What is the difference in choosing a seedling or a piece of advanced stock when acquiring our next Bonsai project?

Nothing!!! The beauty of the project is in the eye of the beholder and you have seen a Bonsai in this subject, so just go for it. Sure, you wont have Show winning tree inside 12 months, but then I haven't seen to many in that category styled up from seedlings either.

You asked for some horticultural advice on olives. I am still learning how to get the best out of these as well, but a few things I have picked up so far. They wont cry and sook if they get a little dry. They do like an open potting medium. I also keep on top of the sucker growth, keeping it clipped away from the base of the tree, more about that in a sec. they defoliate without any issues and the leaves decrease in size quickly. Pruning will only make them angry with you and they try to reproduce double the amount of leaves in a short space of time. Now, back to the sucker bit. Mr Wilson, Mrs Sabey and I once had a long discussion about sucker growth on olives. Mrs Sabey prefered to remove all and any suckers as they grew, while Mr Wilson claimed it was better to leave them as they promoted good root growth. Who was right? We at the risk of sounding like a fence sitter, I reckon both of them. What I do now is, on younger, newer stock, allow the suckers to grow at will, but I do keep them pruned back lower than the actual "Bonsai". I do that for the first year or so after digging the tree up, after which I remover any sucker growth as it appears. Other than making it easier to remove when young, it also direct all the growth into the "Bonsai", leading to much faster style growth of the tree.

With that tree of yours, what I would do is call Star Track and have it delivered up here to me posthaste, but since you are not likely to want to do that, may I simply suggest you do nothing with the tree for the next 12 months. Let it grow, fertilise it, love it and then in around 12 months time the tree within will present itself to you. The only pruning I'd do for now is anything that is obviously wrong, leaving all those sort of decisions for a quiet Sunday afternoon with a cup of coffee, or a beer, in a years time.

Hope this is helpful to you. Good luck to you with this tree and lastly, yes I am as jealous as hell you have it - I have the pot for it already

[James93A]

With that tree of yours, what I would do is call Star Track and have it delivered up here to me posthaste

Lol! I think Startrack may have a weight limit...
Thanks so much for your response Graeme, I didn't see the post reply until now!
This is incredibly helpful. I have let it grow since receiving it, it's gone absolutely bananas. If my memory works later on this afternoon I'll send an updated photo of this olive.
I haven't plucked the suckers off since last summer and the apex of the tree does not seem to enjoy growing where I've roughly wired the apex shoot. Instead it grew a sucker next to it and that shot straight up about 50CM.
How often are you defoliating an olive then? Would you repot and prune at the same time (like ficus)?
James

[shibui]

I've been repotting and pruning my olives at the same time and they don't seem to mind.
You will probably find that you do need to prune olives regularly to get good response. If suckers and strong vertical shoots are allowed to grow they take strength and vigour away from the ones you want to develop. I've even noticed that branches that are trimmed regularly actually thicken a bit more than the ones I've allowed to grow freely so I'll be trimming even more now.

Don't be surprised if you only find a few roots when repotting olives. They seem to manage with very little root mass and take quite a few years to grow a good mass of roots after collection.