Seed growing Japanese Maple Experiment

[gnichols]

Any chance for a seed trade? I have a heap of straight JM seeds (green and purple) and would love to swap for some weepers.

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[TimS]

Ryceman3 - Ohhh yes i certainly know what you mean about space but there is something greatly rewarding about growing from seed. I honestly have been getting far more enjoyment out of my seedling maples than i do from my actual bonsai through summer. I think this next batch will be in tubes a lot longer than the 2018 ones were simply from the space constraint point of view. I also have 300 seeds of an interesting Dianthus in the fridge due to come out and be germinated in a week so i need to work out where they will too. Thanks for the best wishes for this next lot, good luck if you do dip your toe back into the seeds again!

gnichols - if the tree i visit has as many seeds as it did last time i wouldn't mind trading some, but as you see the success rate is running sub 10% for the weepers so i wouldn't hold your breath on getting very many out of them if you do try them. I'll update once i get a chance to visit the tree and see if it has any; it requires me going on a Saturday and I've been on the roster at work on Saturdays for the last 3 or 4 weeks now which has made it impossible. I'll let you know!

[MJL]

Not insane... as I have said before, just committed!
I am also thinking about seeds again, the old favourites (pines) and some others ... but I think (know) for any success next season I need to make room... I think you know what I mean. Good luck with the new lot, hopefully you’ll have just as much success as you did with last years shenanigans.

Ha! R3 and TimS - the two great seed sowers of AusBonsai. So committed that (from memory)at least one of you is looking for a new abode to house your hobby!

Now that’s commitment!


Bonsai teaches me patience.
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[TimS]

I replied to your PM btw Mark!

Was it Sun Tsu or Matsuo Basho who said “have no preferences about your place of residence”? I’ve failed that miserably

[MJL]

Yep - I plan to purchase some of your and R3’s bonsai offspring. If and when you are ready to create space in your driveway(s), gardens and rooftops.


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[TimS]

I just don’t want to sell people trees that may die this year so that’s the only reason I’m holding mine still. I’d love to make space in the driveway!

I have some interesting cultivars you might also be interested in Mark

[TimS]

Tree number one on my hit list for 2019 seed collection is completed. I have raided as much seed as i feel i can from the straight species tree near my house without looking too much like a housebreaker casing the house out for a break and enter. I have ended up with a little over 700 seeds off it so not a bad little haul that crossing fingers will translate into some good new plant material to play with.

Below is a photo of the size of the leaf with a 20c piece for scale, as you can see it has a naturally small leaf which i hope will be retained in any seedlings that do germinate but it is certainly not always the case! Time will tell what these little guys will turn into.

[MJL]

Ha! I can’t see the photo but I might go online and Google to see if I can find a photo of TimS “Seed Stalker” on the Neighbourhood Watch site!


Bonsai teaches me patience.
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[TimS]

Odd you can't see the attachment MJL, it's as near as makes no difference the size of a 20 cent piece so that's all i was trying to show with the photo!


Did you get a look at him? Could you pick him out in a crowd? Nope, i didn't think so! *pink panther music plays* Tim, the maple seed thief*.


*Seed was collected with permission of home owner therefore am not actually a thief

[shibui]

The server upgrade seems to be logging us out when we view a new thread. Check up top and log in (again and again) if necessary until the geeks get it fixed.

Nice small leaves on that tree. You are right that seedlings may not be the same but a far better chance with one parent like this. I have a couple of small leaf JM but very slow to grow and thicken. Hope you can get some that grow better.

End of Feb seems very early to be collecting seed? May still be viable at this stage but I usually wait until they start to drop. Then I know they are fully ripe.

[TimS]

I've not been logged out while using the site but obviously something's not right.

It is early to collect for sure, but I noted that the tree has already had most of it's seed removed by other people walking past it, so i decided to act quickly on it to at least get some before the whole tree was stripped that's why it is way earlier than i would normally collect. I have discarded probably 50% of what i collected because it's obviously not ripe enough and only kept the ones that looks like it has a chance of being viable.

The weeper i plan to go to i will inspect in another 3 weeks as have a commitment in the area at that time. Again if there is any seed left on it that hasn't be collected already i'll make the call then whether it is ready to collect it then or if it needs longer to ripen. I'll also visit a few other places that might be able to offer me some seed as well in another month or so.

[TimS]

Quick update and a shot of the root development at 6 months old.

I'm not sure whether i'm happy to see roots all the way to the bottom of the pot, or a little disappointed that there isn't more root mass at this stage. Given the overall mass of the plants, i would have expected more root growth to support it. I think some allowance needs to be given for them being weeping maples on their own less vigorous root systems, rather than straight species which i would expect far more roots from at this stage which would account for the disparity somewhat.

Hard to say where this fits in the batch in regard average root growth at 6 months, i guess as we move through autumn and *cross fingers* leaf out again in spring and keep growing i'll get to understand a lot better what to expect from these seedlings for the next batch which will be invaluable knowledge.

i think it is safe to say after being slip-potted into standard 6 inch nursery pots they won't need a re-pot for at least a year or two if it continues root growth of this vigor. That will at least save on the pot and potting mix costs

[TimS]

Well as Autumn progresses, and the first leaves of my trees start to show hints of the coming seasonal colour the moment of truth for the 2018 seed grown maples approaches. How many will survive winter? How many will shoot in Spring? How many will not only shoot in spring but go on to continue growing? We shall see.

I have been thinning out more of the weakest ones, and am down to this little batch here of 120 or so potted up into 5 or 6 inch pots. A few dozen still remain in the smaller pots, but i have checked them and they mostly have quite weak looking roots, so i will let time tell for them whether they survive or not.

I found in my notes that i actually started with exactly 1250 seeds, so the first year success rate of what appear to be healthy weeping maples is as near as makes no difference 10%. I will be interested to see what the percentage of those that not only survive winter but grow on in spring is. Hopefully at least some survive and can be dispersed into the bonsai community!

I have collected approximately 2000 seeds from a very wide range of JM, including straight species, Sango Kaku, weeping again and some other random ones i came across. I have had to collect them earlier than i would like, so we shall see if it was too early or not when germination time comes.

Anyway, if i have success with the next batch i'll continue this thread, if not then hopefully there is something helpful left behind of others who follow, if that is only the knowledge that seed growing weeping maples is a very low return on investment and any sane individual would be better off growing straight species!

[MJL]

Tim, as this thread clearly indicates, your horticultural knowledge and thorough approach bodes will for these seedlings. There seem to be lots so if and when you do sell some - I’ll have a crack.
In many ways this thread parallels Ryceman3’s approach with pines - excellent to see you both having a red hot crack and showing us all that with a little care - and a somewhat obsessive enthusiasm to try stuff - you can create quite a farm of seedlings!


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[Ryceman3]

Ditto what MJL just laid out above re: enthusiasm etc.... Love it when somebody has a crack and gives it all they’ve got. Sure... 10% doesn’t sound like much but imagine if you had 50%!?!? Where would you put ‘em!
Personally enjoy reading your thread, looking forward to year 2, and I only have one JM.... quite a few little pines though. It’s not about what you’re growing but the fact you put the effort into doing it that I find interesting to read about, thanks for sharing!