Chinese Elm natural field style

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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by SquatJar »

I'm glad you haven't removed the two crossing left branches. It may technically be a fault but it looks natural. The two thick top left branches do stand out as un-natural to me though. The rest of the tree looks great
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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by CurtisVincent »

Beautiful tree mate, real nice natural aesthetic to it which I love. My only suggestion would be on one of those thicker branches towards the top of the tree. It might look ugly for a bit, but I think it needs to be cut back quite hard, ramified along with the others and the other lower branches left to grow to add nice natural progression of thicker branches towards to bottom of the tree and thinner ones moving up. Otherwise I think it is superb
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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by MJL »

I can see why you sit back and appreciate this tree Tim. This is a ripper. It’s quite beautiful.

The next moves are tricky and advice is probably best from those of deeper experience than I but hey, why not provide some thoughts?

See picture below:
IMG_0842.jpg
It removes the heaviest top branch but keeps the arching main line. I think the slow curving main line, arching to the left is attractive and a feature to keep - so in removing that top branch, hopefully you don’t lose that.

Possibly too, the second branch up on the left could be wired slightly up and slightly back?

Or ... just sit and ponder for another year; no harm in not doing anything for another year and just enjoying a lively tree.


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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by TimS »

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.

I am glad you are all in agreement; this year is the year to swallow the pill of the hard cutback, to improve the tree into the future. It’s easy to sit back and say “I’ll deal with it next year”, but the sooner the cuts are made, the sooner the improvements can be achieved.

Mark, I agree with your assessment there wholeheartedly. That branch just makes very little sense other than the portion of the canopy ramification it supports. Thats not a whole lot to recommend keeping it, so it will with go entirely, or be significantly reduced.

The other heavy branch in the apex will also be cut back for better taper. Hopefully this will deal with the very obvious ‘V’ shape created by the thick branches, and some more pleasing movement can be created.

I might try to time it and see if I can root them as hardwood cuttings, rather than just throw them in the bin.
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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by TimS »

Quick update and what I've elected to do for now to make a start on lessening the "issues". The photos really don't communicate it well, it is such a difficult tree to photograph properly, but i did my best.

The main one i wanted to deal with was the very obvious 'V' created at the top by the heavy primary branches. I decided, for now, that i wouldn't cut back, as there are no really promising shoots to use. Until one appears i changed the front of the tree to the old back which somewhat lessened the effect.

From there i pushed down and wired the left most heavy branch into a natural void that existed, to create a slightly more rounded silhouette, but retaining the interesting branch movement that attracted me to the tree in the first place. The right hand side remains problematic for now. Other than that just some trimming to push back long shoots, removal of heavy branches at the tips and the odd bit of wiring to re-position the apex a little to compensate for the movement of the left hand branch down, and a few other odd branches here and there to fit the silhouette better.

The trunk line now flows better to the apex without your eye getting distracted do obviously IMO, though the tree feels like it is falling away from this side, so i will have to change to potting angle when i repot it next. The heavy branches up top will certainly be cut back, but i would prefer to have a new shoot to train, rather than just cut back and cross fingers a dormant bud appears somewhere useful. It needs a hell of a lot of work still, but at least I've done something more than look at it this year ! :lol:


Opinions welcome as always!

Old front.
old front.jpg

New front
new front.jpg

Branch wired down and apex moved a fraction more forward and to the right (took a few of the same photo to try to capture it well at least once)
branch move 1.jpg
Fettling
branch move 2.jpg
Good enough for tonight
branch move 3.jpg
More of a view of how the branch structure is on the left hand side after pulling the branch down
branch structure.jpg
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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by TimS »

After how happy i was with the last branch movement, i just couldn't let this tree push into Spring without making another change for the year.

One of the rear branches was quite flat, and went against the upwards sweep of the primary branches. So I decided to pull it up to fit the style better, use the secondary branches off it for the lateral movement and in so doing found i could eliminate a heavy branch in the apex. The branch structure of this tree really does not photograph well, but i have achieved a better taper, ramification, and filled a section that i was relying on a new bud appearing on old wood to fix.

The apex needs more tinkering, and probably another 3-5 years of ramification at least, to smooth out the silhouette and not look quite so sparse. On the bottom left there is a very thin shoot underneath the main portion of the first left-hand primary branch. This will be used to create a bit more horizontal dimension in the area as there is a lot of upward swept primary branching occurring. In fact a lot of the focus now will shift into producing lateral growth the soften the dramatic primary branches and 'mature' the look.

As i get new shoots up top i will continue to reduce the heavy primary branches up in the apex as well as the initial primary left branch which carries too much weight to the tip at the moment.

Before
25819b.jpg


The Plan. Red arrow = Heavy branch to remove. Green = the branch that will be lifted up to a less horizontal line.
25819b1.jpg


Branch pulled up and thick growth at the top removed
25819c.jpg



Closer look at the branch being lifted
25819d.jpg



Another look through from the front
25819e.jpg



Apex played around with a bit to fill in some gaps that occurred after removing the thick growth that previously held some apical ramification
25819f.jpg
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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by Keels »

What a nice little tree. I enjoy seeing other artists take on the aspects they would change or improve. Great post thanks for sharing :yes:
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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by TimS »

Keels wrote: August 26th, 2019, 9:58 am What a nice little tree. I enjoy seeing other artists take on the aspects they would change or improve. Great post thanks for sharing :yes:
Thanks very much Keels, it’s very enjoyable seeing some minor brands movements make such a good impact on the overall feel of the tree. They will take a while to Sri in position, but the tree will be better for them.
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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by TimS »

December update and the guy-wires are removed having done their job for the moment. The larger branch that was making the very hard 'V' shape now forms the rounded canopy silhouette just to the left of the center top. I will likely pull it down again a little further as it will move back up a little bit now the wire is off.

Where the long shoot is extending outside the canopy off to the right there is a branch that comes off the primary at a very ugly right angle straight forward (or backwards depending on the viewing angle). That long shoot is the replacement branch running for the moment, and once i get some size and basic definition into it i will take out the ugly branch and work on developing the new one in a better shape. The other aim for the future is to push the upper sections back a little bit to really define the lower branches as the longer ones, more like in nature where they are having to stretch out under the expansive canopy to reach the light. That's just some winter pruning though so no big deal.

The roots are definitely pot bound, the new leaves coming now are tiny, so i will repot in winter. This will be just 2 years in this pot since the last hard root prune.
271219.jpg
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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by MJL »

You are taking this tree to a different level Tim. Having seen this up close, photos don’t do it justice. It’s going to be a ripper in years to come.


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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by TimS »

MJL wrote: December 28th, 2019, 4:44 pm You are taking this tree to a different level Tim. Having seen this up close, photos don’t do it justice. It’s going to be a ripper in years to come.


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Thanks Mark; photos really don’t do it justice. I’ve been looking at and interacting with this tree for about 3 years before I finally saw where I wanted to take it.

I found it quite challenging with the weird ‘V’ created by the apex, I considered a hard cut back of all of the apex primary branches, or removing one branch, but finally settled on this middle ground which doesn’t involve major reconstruction of the majority of the tree.

I think it has benefited from me not rushing in and making changes, now it has a clear direction forward. It might be a compromise to not cut back, but the effect is still pleasing.
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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by TimS »

One of the branches in the canopy has been annoying me for quite some time the more i look at it, and i decided to take action. The photos are shocking for giving any kind of detail, but basically it came off the main branch at a hard 90 degree angle which looked awful to my eye. I have been letting a new shoot underneath it run a little to take over, and i finally decided that it was time to give the replacement branch light and air to grow into.

It's a commitment to remove the branch, as it clearly has a bit of age to it, but the replacement branch at the bottom of the 3rd photo (c) shows the much more flowing line the new branch will take, so in a handful of years it will be significantly better for having this new branch trained into the area.

I also lifted a lower outer primary branch that was very flat to create a more uniform profile for the silhouette which has lots of upward growth in the primary branches. My vision is to push the outer profile back in to it is less of a ball shape than it is now and more an ovate. Anyway, each little change i make is a step forward, and will improve the tree in time.

The branch i am removing in relation to the canopy
a.jpg




Removed. Not particularly attractive growth on it anyway
b.jpg





The scar and the replacement branch (branch has been wired up now)
c.jpg





The size of the hole created by the removal. Yep a few years work here to fill that in again.
d.jpg






The branch lifted up for outer silhouette refinement. You can see the branch here wired to the far left. No real movement put in at the end of the shoot here as it will be cut back to grow more natural movement into it)
e.jpg
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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by Boics »

Good on you Tim, great effort!
Really cool thread.
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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by Alex_B »

That's a beautiful elm Tim really nice branch structure and trunk not to mention how good the canopies are looking.

Thanks for sharing your progress, you've definitely given me some inspiration for my pre-bonsai elm.
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Re: Chinese Elm natural field style

Post by TimS »

Alex_B wrote: January 21st, 2020, 9:27 pm That's a beautiful elm Tim really nice branch structure and trunk not to mention how good the canopies are looking.

Thanks for sharing your progress, you've definitely given me some inspiration for my pre-bonsai elm.
I’m glad to hear that there are folk taking some inspiration from my small works in this tree. Chinese Elm you will likely find that when healthy they are rampant growing and very forgiving too. They grow immense amounts of roots, so if you want it to grow significantly bigger than it is now, certainly increase your pot size and maybe go to a big orchid pot to get the space for the roots without getting a really deep 20cm nursery pot. Regardless though they will bounce right back from having large percentages of their roots removed. When I first repotted this Elm it has been left in the pot for many years, and as a result in late winter I took over 2m of roots and 80%+ of the total root mass off the tree. It didn’t even sulk at all, just bounced straight back into leaf in spring and grew rampantly.

I can’t give you much better advice than what Shibui did in your thread though, so good luck and I’ll be looking forward to following the progress of yours. They are a great species to understand the fundamentals on, but don’t think that just because they are good beginner trees that they aren’t good long term. This Elm is a joy every autumn to watch colour up and drop leaves.
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