Trident Maple development

[jessepap]

Hi all

I recently purchased this Trident from Shibui Bonsai which has been field grown by Neil.

It came with strong and vibrant growth which i decided to take the knife to in order to try and find some direction for the tree and plan for future branch placement. I am pretty new to this with a Trident, I have a smaller trunk which is still growing however am trying to aim a little higher with this tree.

I would welcome any comments/thoughts on how i have gone and where you see it from here.

I have provided photos from start to 'finish' - the trunk has some lovely shape to it.

[BonsaiBobbie]

You are right there is definitely some great movement in the tree.

I think the photos are showing from finish to start btw!!

Wondering why you have wired one of the middle branches horizontal?

Too late now, but I would have kept one of the branches coming out of the cut / tapered end. You had a couple of good options there I thought.

Overall it isn’t clear to me why you cut so many of the branches off? Just to confirm the shape or to try and get some to grow in better spots?

I am not an expert. I don’t have any trees like that at all. I hope to learn something from this!

[jessepap]

thanks for the reply

wire - good question and i guess because the branch was pointing almost upright i thought it better to be more sideways and thought lets chuck a bit of rough wire on there and see!

top - i have cut one of the leaders very short because that branch has a very short inter-node, so it should now sprout a new branch from that point to possibly become the top apex of the tree - i think!

cutting alot of branches - trying to branch select and get some direction for the tree. it started with so many branches so i have cut it down to try and find the direction and future placement of the branches i have kept. They are strong growers so if i have cut too many off, i am sure ones will grow in replacement if required- well i hope anyway.

i am also far from an expert, the opposite actually!

[BonsaiBobbie]

thanks for the reply

wire - good question and i guess because the branch was pointing almost upright i thought it better to be more sideways and thought lets chuck a bit of rough wire on there and see!

top - i have cut one of the leaders very short because that branch has a very short inter-node, so it should now sprout a new branch from that point to possibly become the top apex of the tree - i think!

cutting alot of branches - trying to branch select and get some direction for the tree. it started with so many branches so i have cut it down to try and find the direction and future placement of the branches i have kept. They are strong growers so if i have cut too many off, i am sure ones will grow in replacement if required- well i hope anyway.

i am also far from an expert, the opposite actually!

Very good! Thanks for the explanations. Like I said, I hope to learn something, in part by your thinking, and to see where it goes.

I'm now looking on my computer rather than my phone, so i can see what you mean by the new leader

Looking to see how it goes.

[shibui]

Taking off lots of new shoots is often a good thing. Initially we tend to keep far more branches than needed because they are all skinny but as they thicken and begin to ramify there's suddenly no spaces. Taking off a few more allows the chosen branches to grow and develop quicker and better.

Definitely need to bend maple branches really early while they are still flexible enough to get a good bend close to the trunk. If left until the shoots harden the angle will look unnatural or you'll break them. The only option left with hardened branches is to cut off and start over with new shoots.
The shoot that has been chosen and wired appears to have quite a long internode close to the trunk. That may be OK if the branches are to be longer but from experience a long section at the base of branches stands out when the tree is more refined. Better to start with shorter sections rather than longer ones. Fingers crossed another shoot will grow from the base next to that one. I've found that having a strong branch next to a weaker one is a good strategy. The smaller one usually has much shorter internodes so you can develop a better branch while the strong one takes energy then chop the strong one to leave the best branch.

[jessepap]

Wow so this has sprung a lot of new shoots already! Surprised at how quickly it is pushing out many new shoots all over the tree.

- if there are shoots where I can see a branch is not wanted is it better to pick them off immediately? I assume yes?
- if there are multiple shoots at a similar spot is it best to leave them all to grow to see where they end up?

[shibui]

Tridents are definitely tough. Hard to credit that this tree was dug last winter, chopped down to a stump and had most of the roots hacked off. Now it has grown back, been pruned hard again and still throwing lots of new shoots.

Get rid of definitely unwanted shoots as soon as possible. The earlier you rub them off the less likely you'll get regrowth after.

Multiple buds where you think you may need a branch: I generally take off the ones with worst angles -down or straight up but leave 2 or 3 for a start. First for insurance in case one gets damaged but also one will usually take off and grow strong with long internodes - not so good for the sort of ramification we need on bonsai - but that strong shoot will steal food and energy from the neighbouring shoots so they will be shorter with shorter internodes. Take some time to train the smaller shoots and then in a few years chop the big one leaving a great branch.

[jessepap]

Did a half sort of prune without leaves. Still I think more to do but a bit of a start.

I think the front branch to the left I will shorten and reduce to the first internode.

Trying to determine of the left back cluster of branches needs to go entirely.. not sure it fits..

Thoughts most welcome!!!

[Ryceman3]

I think that there is plenty of promise in the trunk and you have a decent amount to work with in relation to the branching you’ve started to build, but since it’s a trident you should look to reduce long internodes and straight sections that will just make you wish had done so later on. I’ve marked some … there are a couple of others too but I think cutting back past these now and building something better from there will get you a superior tree without costing you years in development that stems from fixing flawed beginnings…
I’m not trying to negate the work you’ve done, but hopefully encourage you to build a better tree by not accepting long straight internodes from the secondary branching as it develops. Cut now, get better bones closer to the trunk (hopefully) as a result and reap the rewards of a better tree as it develops.
As always, just what I see in the pics so maybe not what you see in the tree in real life. I will always defer to the opinion of someone who can actually see the tree.
There is potential for something good though, no question.

[jessepap]

Really appreciate the reply and time taken to mark the tree.

what you see in the tree where you have marked is exactly that, long inter nodes that are pretty much straight out.

the left branch which is current left long - i thought it had to be cut off but was then worried there would be nothing left on the left side of the tree and nothing on the extension of the thicker bottom branch - but i guess something new will hopefully grow from there if i chop it off.

the top left section you marked - i was contemplating removing this entire section as it sort of has a bulge at the base where the branch meets the trunk - i guess i wasnt sure if that matter or not!

thanks so much for your reply.

[Ryceman3]

Ok, not trying to railroad your thread but I’ve had a bit of a think about your tree.
I think you need the bottom left branch. It comes from a decent outside curve on the trunk, but it is currently quite a thick branch at a weirdish angle… I think maybe regrow this section, and keep it quite compact.
I don’t like that bulging section you mention up higher, and I think removing it is the answer. It’s a bit problematic as the remaining branch comes from the inside of the curve, but it could work I think… maybe something like below?
You can draw virts til the cows come home, but in the end, they’re just indicative images. I think if nothing else this shows a better balance with the bottom left intact.
Food for thought if nothing else…

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[jessepap]

I would say the opposite of railroading.
To me you taking the time to draw and think about the tree is really amazing. Thank you.

The pictures really help get an idea of where it might go.
Agree on the bottom left - the small thick stays and I just remove the long internode and hopefully regrow in that area something with a shorter node. I think that’s what you mean when you say regrow this section. I think it does need some branches in that lower section as well.

It does need that balancing on the left. I am a bit stuck with that left bulge nearer the top, seems like it should go but is there then possibly a big hole with nothing there if I remove it all?!? It would only leave one branch towards that left side which is more coming out from the front of the tree…

[Pearcy001]

Just a consideration for you. Current tree is lacking a little in taper. If you're will to go on a longer journey, here's a consideration for you.

The harsh cut angle below will reduce over time as the tree grows and leader thickens into more of the final design. Can be cut at an angle so as the scar isn't visible from the front. Just food for thought.

Always take online opinions with a grain of salt as we are only looking at 2D photos. No need to consider this option, just throwing it out there in case you hadn't thought of this option. Good luck with the tree, it's great either way.

Cheers,
Pearcy.

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[jessepap]

Scissors have come out for another chop.

The lower left branch still has a long internode - I suspect I should cut that back.

Top left - still not sure on that left hand side branch it looks at a weird angle to me. But it’s quite thick.

Just next to that more to the front of the tree I have left a short internode however not sure you should have a branch coming of the front of the trunk like that..

[Promethius]

I'm a little late to the party. The tree has some great, graceful bones. I'm sure you'll be happy with it, whichever direction you take.
The main front you've chosen lacks taper and there is a suggestion of inverse taper developing towards the top. If it were mine, I would consider taking off the top few cm, which would address both issues.
As R3 has said, though, I'm basing this off of one perspective and it may be perfect as it is, when seen in person!