trident maple leaf problem

[Paulneill]

Hi bonzafiers. I bought a large trident maple trunk from a nursery in Sydney 2 months ago and it was late coming out of dormancy compared with my other tridents.
It been slow to put out leaves and they appear to be red small and a little curled and have black tips . I took pictures but they were not good so im not posting them, It has not been re potted I have just left it in its pot as i was planning to layer the top off . The soil its in looks just like garden soil and it appears to be dense and root bound on the surface.

Does anyone know what the problem is ?

Thanks

[Matthew]

A picture would help but sounds like a fungal problem Bretts gets now and then. having siad that its hard without a pic and several other causes maybe likely.

[Bretts]

Hi Paul.
It does sound like the issue some come across a couple of years ago but as Mathew suggested pictures will help alot even bad ones.
I set out a thread on this detailing what I had learnt about the issue here.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3927&p=73353
It has some pictures showing what can be devastating effects. Also a link to IBC where some had similar issue overseas recently. The pictures there are also very good as they show better the burnt end that the leaves may get at the first onset.
I will give a quick update in the thread.

[Mojo Moyogi]

Hi bonzafiers. I bought a large trident maple trunk from a nursery in Sydney 2 months ago and it was late coming out of dormancy compared with my other tridents.
It been slow to put out leaves and they appear to be red small and a little curled and have black tips . I took pictures but they were not good so im not posting them, It has not been re potted I have just left it in its pot as i was planning to layer the top off . The soil its in looks just like garden soil and it appears to be dense and root bound on the surface.

Does anyone know what the problem is ?

Thanks

Hi Paul, the key to your problem could be linked to what I have highlighted in red text above, from your earlier post.

Soil and overwatering/poor drainage issues due to poor soil composition, breakdown of potting media, inadequate particle size, inadequate container drainage.

Posting decent pictures of the problem is crucial to obtaining an informed diagnosis on any bonsai problem, certainly before applying any treatments based on a verbal description.

Delayed bud emergence from dormancy can be caused by inadequate provision of sunlight during both the previous growing seasons and during dormancy, many retail nurseries including some bonsai nurseries keep their trees (especially Maples) under shadecloth year round to save on water and maintenance and this can lead to weaker plants in the short term.

Cheers,
Mojo

[Bretts]

Good points , I expected to address this in the thread linked but to clarify here. How do I agree with ya here Mojo but add that a weak tree that has sucum to a disease or pest needs the reason it has become weak as well as the disease or pest adressed. Not only weak trees will be affected but weaker trees or say a tree under stress (even a hard cut back) will be harder hit in my experience.
This issue I faced, the severity of the afliction to the point of death is directly linked to the vigor of the tree.
But anyway lets hope this is not what it sounds like

[63pmp]

Soil and overwatering/poor drainage issues due to poor soil composition, breakdown of potting media, inadequate particle size, inadequate container drainage

I agree with you Mojo, all of the above leads to oxygen deficiency in the roots. All the symptoms Paul has described is consistent with Oxygen deficiency.

Careful watering can help, but worthwile just planting the affected tree into a nice garden bed where it gets afternon shade, and repot next year. If not an option, stick a wick, piece of nylon cord, into one of the drainage holes and allow a good 18 inches to dangle down, it will drain the soil for you.

Paul

[PinkFlowers]

My trident maple has the same thing! I thought the new leaves had just gotten a bit scorched.

[63pmp]

IMO, spring time is a tricky time for tridents, especially if you haven't repotted. The leaves are coming out but the plant isn't taking up a lot of water. The roots will have filled the bottom of the pot, holding more water than is good for them due to reduced pore size, which restricts oxygen levels in the roots. The top of the soil looks dry because the days are warm, but the bottom of the pot is well wet. Depending on severity of oxygen deficiency, it generally causes droopy, cupped leaves that are smaller than usual, and prone to tip blight. The oxygen deficiency also affects nutrient and water uptake, so leaf deformation can occur.

If its in a shallow bonsai pot, tilt it up so it drains better. Hold back on watering, keep in shade, it reduces leaf demand for water.

Paul

[Paulneill]

Hi all

My tree is in a large nursery pot and planted in stogy soil. looks like the worst stuff you could plant a tree in and i haven't helped by watering it too much.I re-potted it yesterday reduced 60 % of the roots and then shook a lot of soil out of what was left then i potted it in to a mix of 30% bonsai soil and 30% daitomite and 50% scorca and moved it so it gets 2 or 3 hours sun in the morning . I will leave it for a while and then hit it with Yates anti rot that i have here . hopefully that does it .

[Paulneill]

o yea also my tree looks just like bretts in his earlier post only difference the tips of my leaves are not as black and rotted yet.

[chipper5]

Hi Paul,

I had what sounds like the same problem with mine during Spring/Summer last year. Only one (of my 20 or so) tridents had this problem and no other trees in my collection showed any of the same symptoms. The new leaves were black and shrivelled and the growth was so slow. I had re-potted 6 months prior into a good bonsai mix and but the growth was minimal. I thought it may have had curl grubs so I took it out of the pot to find nothing, so potted it back up. Someone suggested a fungal problem but fungal treatments didn't help. Wasn't til a few month later I gave all my trees a soak in a bucket of seasol that I discovered what I think was the problem.

About 20 minutes after I had put it in the bucket with the seasol mix I found hundreds of tiny (less than 1cm long), almost clear, white worms (nematodes perhaps or other pest worm???) making their way out of the soil surface and climbing up the tree and into the branches and leaves. They all ended up dying in the sun and after the soak my tree's growth improved out of sight- the branches skyrocketed, had an abundance of leaves and the black tips disappeared. I don't think it was the seasol that made the difference as I'd been watering fortnightly with seasol, but with these worms gone the tree showed a drastic improvement in health. The black tips havent come back and this years new growth is fantastic.

So perhaps try soaking your tree in a seaweed solution- even if it isn't the same problem the soak won't hurt your tree, may even help it somewhat.

Hope thats been of help,

Chipper5

[Paulneill]

Thanks chipper I will do that and keep an eye out for those little worms . Cheers

[63pmp]

hey Chipper,

Was there any root damage when you inspected your trident?

Be interesting to know what sort of worms they were, nematode aren't visible to the eye, curious as to what they might be.

Paul

[chipper5]

Hey Paul,

I checked the roots when I took it out of the pot- didn't quite bare root it but wanted to get right in as I really thought it had curl grubs due to its lack of growth. As far as I could tell there wasn't any damage to the roots but the poor tree had had hardly any root growth from its repotting 6 months earlier. I'm pretty convinced it was these 'worms' because none of my other trees had them and no other trees had the same problems with growth or black tips. I'll try and find out what they were...

Chipper5

[Bretts]

IMO, spring time is a tricky time for tridents, especially if you haven't repotted. The leaves are coming out but the plant isn't taking up a lot of water. The roots will have filled the bottom of the pot, holding more water than is good for them due to reduced pore size, which restricts oxygen levels in the roots. The top of the soil looks dry because the days are warm, but the bottom of the pot is well wet. Depending on severity of oxygen deficiency, it generally causes droopy, cupped leaves that are smaller than usual, and prone to tip blight. The oxygen deficiency also affects nutrient and water uptake, so leaf deformation can occur.

If its in a shallow bonsai pot, tilt it up so it drains better. Hold back on watering, keep in shade, it reduces leaf demand for water.

Paul

If a pathology test giving a treatment plan that then works is not enough to convince that this issue is a fungus then who knows what will.
If my tridents don't have this fungus issue (or it is treated) they grow very strong and very healthy even in full sun all year round in any soil with lots of fertiliser and wether they have been repotted or not.
You can lead a horse to water