Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

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Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby Action Jackson » October 8th, 2017, 8:25 pm

Hi all an honest beginner and having trouble with my pyracantha.
The leaves have started to wilt in sections...I'm putting it down to possibly overwatering? However I always check the soil to make sure it's ready for a drink but still haven't worked out watering yet

ImageImage
Last edited by Action Jackson on October 8th, 2017, 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby shibui » October 8th, 2017, 8:41 pm

I'm not getting your images AJ so it is a bit hard to work out what the problem might be.
Wilting this time of year is most likely a thirsty tree. Can you give us an idea of how you water and how often please?
2nd possibility would be a fungal infection in roots or trunk but I think that's less likely. I have not seen that happen to pyracantha either.
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby Action Jackson » October 8th, 2017, 8:45 pm

Shibui i am grateful of your response and i do hope that it is a thirsty tree.

I water with a watering can from the top of tree and cover the soil in pot. I scratch at the surface of the tree to make sure the soil is not wet but moist. This tree definitely needs a repot but i am too afraid to attempt it just yet

PS: photos should be fixed now
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby shibui » October 8th, 2017, 9:04 pm

OK mate. I see photos now.
I'm pretty sure this is a thirsty tree but symptoms of root problems are identical because without roots the tree is also thirsty.
You say the tree needs a repot. That also points toward a thirsty tree. When the pot gets full of roots it is harder for water penetrate into the rootzone. I suspect if you repotted now you would find the rootball is very dry inside and only damp around the edges.
I recommend soaking the pot in water now. Leave it for a few hours or overnight. If the tips stand up properly again in a few hours I'm right :tu: If nothing improves after soaking we can eliminate dry as the problem :crybye:

Please update on the tree's response.
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby Action Jackson » October 8th, 2017, 10:34 pm

Hi shibui I've given the tree a good soak in s bucket but chickened out leaving it overnight.

Hope there is improvement in the morning. Thank you so much for your help
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby Daluke » October 9th, 2017, 6:53 am

I echo Shibui’s diagnosis.

You have an open mix which means it’s going to dry out quickly.

I have some of mine sitting in a water tray. I also mist (as well as watering) as I’ve found they like humidity around the leaves.

I just noticed it in front of a window like it’s on a balcony. The air conditioner base isn’t next to it is it?
Last edited by Daluke on October 9th, 2017, 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby Action Jackson » October 9th, 2017, 8:32 am

Hi Shibui - your diagnosis was right :tu: the leaves have bounced back this morning.
Image

Daluke - thank you for the tips, I will add misting and not be so cautious with the watering. The tree is located on a plant bench in full sun - was only under the alfresco for the photo as it was late at night.

The tree definitely needs a repot and shibui was right that the water is reaching the roots due to the mass.
Is it too late in spring to repot? Also my mix is 40% pumice 40% pine chips 20% zeolite. I've read that for a pyra it is best to have more organic matter for successful fruiting?
Last edited by Action Jackson on October 9th, 2017, 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby dansai » October 9th, 2017, 9:21 am

Sounds like you have been underwatering. A little bit of water to moisten the top will not be enough to moisten the rootball. You need to water until you see water running freely from the drainage holes. Then allow it to dry a bit before rewatering. If it’s in full sun and warm, water that would probably be most days.
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby Action Jackson » October 9th, 2017, 9:29 am

dansai wrote:Sounds like you have been underwatering. A little bit of water to moisten the top will not be enough to moisten the rootball. You need to water until you see water running freely from the drainage holes. Then allow it to dry a bit before rewatering. If it’s in full sun and warm, water that would probably be most days.


Hi dansai - yep you are right. I haven't been rewatering, just watering enough to cover the pot and making sure it drains through the holes. But it obviously hasn't been getting to the roots due to the density - I will now make an effort to rewater

was cautious because all I would read was that beginners are prone to kill trees by overwatering rather than under-watering.
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby Boics » October 9th, 2017, 10:08 am

Action Jackson wrote: was cautious because all I would read was that beginners are prone to kill trees by overwatering rather than under-watering.


Hmm interesting reading.
I'd say with a fair level of confidence that in Australia the opposite is far more likely.
It only takes 1 day of underwatering in Melbourne to lose Bonsai for good.

With free draining substrate/soil one can water pretty liberally with little negative impacts - especially over shorter timeframes.
One of the fabulous things about growing bonsai is as you get old and decrepit your trees get old and beautiful
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby Pup » October 9th, 2017, 4:10 pm

Hi Action, if you think it is root bound it definately needs re potting.Mean time open up the soil with chop sticks.poke the stick in several places around the pot and rotate GENTLY notice I said GENTLY.
This will allow more water to penertrate the root ball.

Cheers pup.
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby Action Jackson » October 9th, 2017, 5:20 pm

Pup wrote:Hi Action, if you think it is root bound it definately needs re potting.Mean time open up the soil with chop sticks.poke the stick in several places around the pot and rotate GENTLY notice I said GENTLY.
This will allow more water to penertrate the root ball.

Cheers pup.


Hi pup thanks for your advice will do as advised. Loving that i am able to get all this advice from experienced enthusiasts willing to help a beginner :tu:

Any tips on a soil mix and time of year to repot the pyra?
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby Pup » October 9th, 2017, 5:30 pm

Action Jackson wrote:
Pup wrote:Hi Action, if you think it is root bound it definately needs re potting.Mean time open up the soil with chop sticks.poke the stick in several places around the pot and rotate GENTLY notice I said GENTLY.
This will allow more water to penertrate the root ball.

Cheers pup.


Hi pup thanks for your advice will do as advised. Loving that i am able to get all this advice from experienced enthusiasts willing to help a beginner :tu:

Any tips on a soil mix and time of year to repot the pyra?

My mix here in WA is a bit different to yours, I two part Carnavon river Sand to 1 part coco peat to 1 part of a quality potting mix. You might have trouble with the sand try scoria.

Cheers pup
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby shibui » October 9th, 2017, 6:08 pm

I use the same basic mix for all my trees. They all seem to do well in the same mix. Using different mixes for each species is only adding a heap of work.

I think if I had a pot bound pyracantha at this time of year I'd probably repot it. They are pretty tough and it has only just started to grow so should cope with repotting, especially if you don't remove too much - maybe up to 1/2 of the roots.
Pup's hole poking suggestion will get you through this summer if you are not brave enough to try a repot now.
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Re: Help - Pyracantha with wilting leaves

Postby Pearcy001 » October 9th, 2017, 11:17 pm

May be worth gently removing it from the pot and taking a photo of it to show how rootbound it is. Just slip it out carefully and don't disturb it, they way people can tell you how urgently it may need to be repotted.

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