Preparing Field Grown Juniper

[one_bonsai]

I'm a beginner and new advice on how to prepare this Juniper for field growing. I'm going to let the leader and branches low down grow as a sacrifice.

At the moment it is way too tall. So I'm thinking of letting the top part grow long (in red) which will be chopped off at some point in the future and a new apex lower down will be developed. So should I wire a lower branch now as the future new apex?

[KIRKY]

I suggest you wire as much movement into it now. Especially into the trunk. The lower braches that you plan on using as sacrifice branches should be wired down and stripped of the growth near the trunk allowing more light to get to the trunk and lower / middle branches you plan on keeping. Unless you plan to remove all the growth later and regrow the branch structure. Then just wire the trunk with movement.
Cheers
Krky

[shibui]

I would suggest ignoring most of the trunk. I think you will find the best bonsai will eventually come from the base of the trunk and one of the lowest branches as the new trunk.
This is a ground cover type and all new growth is likely to grow down or horizontal. Lower branches tend to grow faster than the apex in prostrate varieties so there is less risk that the top will dominate and suppress the lower branches.
You can always wire parts of any juniper, especially to take out the typical straight sections but wiring trees in the ground is fraught. They thicken so quickly that wire bites in before you have even thought of removing it. I usually just tie branches, wind them around each other or use some other way to make curves and bends while they are growing.
In my experience, trees in the ground change shape and size so much that any preliminary plan will have disappeared before you dig it up again. I do wire and bend trees in the ground to give options for later but have found it is far better to work with whatever turns out rather than trying to plan ahead at the start.

[one_bonsai]

Now I'm confused.

[shibui]

Now I'm confused.

Best get used to that. We work with living things. There are usually many different ways to reach a similar end point so many people will have different advice. Not wrong, just different ways of achieving the same things.
You'll also find that there are well meaning but very inexperienced people spouting theory that they've never practiced which may or may not be either correct, practical or the best way. (definitely not aimed at Kirky )
Advice also reflects the ideals and likes of each of us so the tree that you imagine is probably different from the tree that Kirky has in mind which is almost certainly different from the one that I would like to grow from the same starting stock. The methods used to achieve each of those different outcomes may also be different.

Is there specific points that have caused your confusion? Maybe we can help straighten out any misunderstandings.

[one_bonsai]

Is there specific points that have caused your confusion? Maybe we can help straighten out any misunderstandings.

Yes I'm still not sure if I should I wire and shape the trunk

[shibui]

Go ahead and wire the trunk. It probably won't hurt and might possibly even help.
However, you need to be aware of any or all of the following:
*If you put plants in the ground they will grow faster. Wires will cut into the trunk, leave ugly scars and maybe even kill part of the trunk if you don't get the wire off in time - keep a close watch when you have trees with wire growing fast.

*In my experience the trunk will look so vastly different after a period of ground growth. How will you decide where to put the bends and curves if you cannot predict the future shape?

*Taper is an important part of a bonsai. You may be able to grow a tapered trunk with good, low sacrifice branches. I get better results by cutting back to a side branch (which will usually be thinner than the main trunk) and using it to continue the trunk. In that case wiring the existing trunk will be a waste of time (except for the practice you'll get with wiring?) I would probably wire and bend one or both of the lower branches as possible trunks for the future with the aim of cutting off the entire upper part of the existing trunk.
the blue area you have indicated is far too high for the future apex on this trunk. Apex will need to be grown up from far lower down.

All the above will be hard to visualise without appropriate experience. In the end it probably won't matter which method you use. Can almost always make some sort of bonsai out of whatever you have grown.

[robb63]

This may or may not help depending on what you want from this juniper
The majority of trees I have in the ground are there only to grow the trunks, tops don't matter.
The ones I tried shaping then putting in ground 3 yrs/ago are already out growing my ideas.
Branches are too thick so I'll end up chopping and starting again when I lift them.
What I have found helpful was getting some bends low down near nebari if possible.
Then leave as much foliage as you can to increase growth rate and for as many years as you choose
The rest is just a matter of time and then as Shibui said work with what you have when you lift
If you like trunk taper in junipers that means chopping to a lower branch and obviously will take much longer
What I found with my junipers is they take up to 2yrs to settle into my grow beds before they sort of take off.
My plan was to ground grow my junipers for 4 maybe 5 yrs. Now looking more like 10yrs
cheers

[one_bonsai]

I get better results by cutting back to a side branch (which will usually be thinner than the main trunk) and using it to continue the trunk.

So like you would with say a chinese elm?

[one_bonsai]

Branches are too thick so I'll end up chopping and starting again when I lift them.

So you remove just the thick branches and work with the younger branches?

[shibui]

So like you would with say a chinese elm?

Probably... It depends what you mean by this and also what you want from the tree. I do this for almost all the trees I ground grow here - grow, cut back, grow again and repeat until something useful emerges or until the trunk is so ugly it goes on the bonfire.

What I found with my junipers is they take up to 2yrs to settle into my grow beds before they sort of take off.
My plan was to ground grow my junipers for 4 maybe 5 yrs. Now looking more like 10yrs

Exactly the same here with the shimpaku junipers I usually grow. 4-5 years min, up to 8-10 for really thick trunks. I think J. procumbens grows quite a bit faster (which is why there are so many of these available) so may not take quite so long.

So you remove just the thick branches and work with the younger branches?

Yes, provided there are still younger, thinner branches at the time. Junipers tend to stop producing smaller branches on thicker, older trunks.

What seemed so simple is getting more complicated all the time
Need to know the species and how it reacts to all these techniques. Experience is also useful which can take time (many years). Some second hand experience can be obtained from other growers but, unfortunately is harder to write down. Far easier to talk and show. Best to look for someone in your area that can provide practical help and explanations.

[one_bonsai]

My plan was to ground grow my junipers for 4 maybe 5 yrs. Now looking more like 10yrs
cheers

Yeah I don't think I have the patience to wait ten years. I guess I'm wanting to add about 10mm more trunk thickness and some taper.

[one_bonsai]

So like you would with say a chinese elm?

Probably... It depends what you mean by this...

So let the trunk grow thick then chop the trunk. Select a new branch and grow as the new leader until it's a bit thinner than the previous trunk, then select a new leader and so on.

[shibui]

So let the trunk grow thick then chop the trunk. Select a new branch and grow as the new leader until it's a bit thinner than the previous trunk, then select a new leader and so on.

At its simplest you have it.
In reality there are lots of variations that can give slightly different results. Every one who does this will also have minor variations they think give better results. Except me of course, I do it right

[one_bonsai]

So let the trunk grow thick then chop the trunk. Select a new branch and grow as the new leader until it's a bit thinner than the previous trunk, then select a new leader and so on.

At its simplest you have it.

Would I be looking at ten years using this method?