Japanese Black Pine longitudinal study; Collaborators needed

[Grant Bowie]

Hi Grant,
Can you tell us what to look for and when to decide that the new candles have "hardened off"?

Good question.

1. Colour change from the light green to a dark green; supposing you are fertilising well.
2. Sharpness or stiffness of the needle; its sharp and firm.
3. If you pluck a needle there is resistance to it; you have to tug it, it doesn't pull out or fall out easily. (If you man handle the tree and the needles bend, break or fall out; they are not hardened off).

Grant

[Rolf]

Tree number 1 showing much greater vigour and many more small candles. The small candles are quite plump and green tips of needles apparent
The only long candles ones are on a sacrifice branch which is good.

Tree number 2 has much fewer candles and all are small. None of these look like opening yet.

Ken

Hi Ken,
I had a look at your black pine and was very envious, such nice lichens!! Coming naturally or are you promoting lichen growth.
I find it makes any tree looking more mature and aged.
Rolf
Nope all Natural here
Nothing fake but I also lichen it a lot

Ken

[Grant Bowie]

IMG_7010.jpg

IMG_7011.jpg

IMG_7012.jpg

IMG_7013.jpg

Whereas No 2 pine had lots of flower and so far little elongation

IMG_7014.jpg

Experimenting on the trees hasn't stopped me from shaping the trees.

IMG_7017.jpg

[Ray M]

Hi Grant,
I thought you may be interested in this photo. After talking with you at the Canberra show, and discussing the differences in candle growth from Canberra to Sydney. This layer was taken off in March this year. It has had the same fertilizer regime applied as Tree No1 in the tests.

IMG_9689 -2.jpg

Regards Ray

[Grant Bowie]

Hi Grant,
I thought you may be interested in this photo. After talking with you at the Canberra show, and discussing the differences in candle growth from Canberra to Sydney. This layer was taken off in March this year. It has had the same fertilizer regime applied as Tree No1 in the tests.

IMG_9689 -2.jpg

Regards Ray

Thanks for the input Ray. The layer would be a bit slower than your others I guess?

Grant

[Grant Bowie]

How is everyone doing? How are your pines doing?

I hope you are noting the major markers and differences of budding , elongation, hardening off etc and writing it down.

I have continued to fertilise my trees and they seem to be about 2 to 3 weeks off hardening off in some cases; some may take longer.

Today and tomorrow are going to be 30 degrees so it is the first run of consistent warm; but not hot; weather.

Grant

[kcpoole]

My unfertilised one still has not elongated yet, and the other has not hardened off.

Ken

[Grant Bowie]

My unfertilised one still has not elongated yet, and the other has not hardened off.

Ken

That is interesting; I thought your pines in Sydney might have hardened off by now.

grant

[kcpoole]

My unfertilised one still has not elongated yet, and the other has not hardened off.

Ken

That is interesting; I thought your pines in Sydney might have hardened off by now.

grant

Going by your guide earlier in the thread here

Hi Grant,
Can you tell us what to look for and when to decide that the new candles have "hardened off"?

Good question.

1. Colour change from the light green to a dark green; supposing you are fertilising well.
2. Sharpness or stiffness of the needle; its sharp and firm.
3. If you pluck a needle there is resistance to it; you have to tug it, it doesn't pull out or fall out easily. (If you man handle the tree and the needles bend, break or fall out; they are not hardened off).

Grant

the only applicable one is #1, they are a dark green, but although sharp they are still soft.
The y pull easily from the sheath if plucked as well.

They must be close as only partway there

Ken

[mtarros]

My fertilized black pine has really hardened off lol its all brown.

The non-fertilized one is going well, not sure what happened as i did not fertilize it too much, i'm guessing it did not like the re-pot?
They were both re-potted at the same time.

[kez]

Thought I'd post an update of pines 1 and 2,

All of my pines have been moving for quite a while now and at various rates. I have a red pine that has completely hardened off, and a very strong nishiki that is only now starting to have its needles open out.

The pines from the study are also a little different from each other, and the 2 explained above

Here's pine 1

IMG_2741 (1280x853).jpg

and a shot close up of the new seasons growth

IMG_2742 (1280x853).jpg

This is the tree which has had ferts through winter. It has come into spring well, and in front of pine 2, something that is of importance I think as I felt this tree was struggling coming into winter with a generally lackluster appearance and some yellowing of the needles (at the time the current seasons)

Here's pine 2

IMG_2744 (1280x853).jpg

new growth

IMG_2746 (1280x853).jpg

At the start of the study this was definitely the stronger tree, and while it has pushed alot of strong healthy growth, it has not extended as far as pine 1 yet,

As said above all my pines are very active and have been for a while now, and these 2 are somewhere in the middle as far as how advanced the new growth is, but it's clear there is a difference between the 2

Hope this helps and is of interest folks,

Kerrin

[shibui]

I've got a couple of pairs in this study. For a while I thought there was little difference between fertilised and not but now I see the fertilised trees have significantly longer new candles. Take a look.
First the A team:

c pine study A 1 2014 11 - Copy.JPG

c pine study A 2 2014 11 - Copy.JPG

Longest new shoot on 1A (fertilised over winter) is 170mm long. Mid length shoots are around 100mm.
Longest new shoot on 2A (only fertilised since spring) is 140mm long. Mid length around 70mm.

The B team show even greater differences.

c pine study B 1 2014 11 - Copy.JPG

c pine study B 2 2014 11 - Copy.JPG

Longest new shoot on B1(fertilised over winter) is 280mm. Mid length shoots around 150mm
Longest new shoot on B2 (only fertilised since spring) is 130mm. Mid length shoots around 70mm

I have also treated a pair of younger seedlings just for interest.

c pine study C 1,2 2014 11 - Copy.JPG

Not much difference in growth between these younger trees but they have put on plenty of growth. They are both in 15 cm pots for scale reference. Note that the unfertilised one has produced female flowers.
C2 (unfertilised) has slightly longer shoots at 380mm. Longest shoot on C1 only 350mm long!

[Grant Bowie]

There is certainly noticeable difference in the older trees; a good result.

Extra vigour in the trees will give a better result after candle pruning and needle plucking.

Grant

[Ray M]

Hi shibui and Grant,
I notice in shibui's trees the difference in colour. I had the same effect. The tree that was fertilized first is a much darker green.

Regards Ray

[Gerard]

I have a surprising result,
Tree number 1 (fertilized through winter) has not hardened off yet, candles are much longer
Tree number 2 is darker in colour and I would consider that it has hardened off but candles are shorter.