Shimpaku ...Oh, the places we can go.

[anthonyW]

The other alternate Mark, same outcomes is to bring the keeper up if more pliable then reset the potting angle or bring the keeper up as said but leave potting angle the same but further out you reset keepers branch down so it approx to where it was before coming up ,basically your bending further from a point out on its stem/trunk if that makes sense can show if you don t understand what i saying on the second one ...cheers

[MJL]

Thanks KC&R and Anthony, appreciate the continued input.

I see what Bill is doing but I think that an undercut may be the way to go... I think it is the top line here that will show over time - not the underneath of the branch. In essence for this to work (I think) the top branch needs to curve quickly to reflect the sweeping keeper that for me, is the essence of the tree. Hence perhaps a cut like this to reflect the tree line not the red.

I am not explaining myself very well and nor can I use the editing tools in Photo very well yet but here's what I think may occur in the short term. I have not got the kit at home anyway - going to get some raphia, strong wire etc... may be a job for a few weeks time.

IMG_6323.jpg

Version 2.jpg

Look at these photos again, I will not be fussed if I knacker it and then make a Jin at the top. Ok, I may be fussed a little bit but you get what I mean.

[Keep Calm and Ramify]

Yep, that sounds like a plan!
I'm impressed that your willing to tackle this tricky branch bending method .
It's wise to try this first - then fall back on the jin as a last resort.
If you can successfully achieve your goal here - I don't think you will be able to keep playing the "I'm a novice" card for much longer...

[MJL]

If you can successfully achieve your goal here - I don't think you will be able to keep playing the "I'm a novice" card for much longer...

Thanks KC&R - as it happens, I will be giving a presentation ‘Observations of a Novice’ - essentially what I have learned so far ... at the YVBS in the near future.’ I’d better get to it ...while I am still a novice!


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[kcpoole]

IMHO you need to fill gap between the branches as they are too far apart and was looking at how that might b done and saw andrews Virt.
Totally agree with him an also think that this should be not hard to bend

Get soem thick wire and rafia, Split the trunk if you need but don't worry about wedge cuts, It is not that big
I thought.

Ken

[MJL]

I love this forum - great advice all around. Such an engaged community.

After helping my neighbour dig out 10 metres of those annoying weeds called Agapanthus this afternoon; (cr@p job but our world (neighbourhood) is a better place without those weeds... anyway...) I whipped over to Trevor at Bonsai Art. I often forget what wonderful advice and experience is on my door-step and Trevor is a lovely bloke with a great looking nursery - it looks better with each visit. As an aside, Trevor is who I purchased the original stock off some time ago now!

I took the plant back to Trevor... his reaction to what I had done with his original stock was priceless! I am sure it is not what he would have done but he had the good grace to be polite. He was great actually. We sat and looked at it for some time and he was really engaged and when I tilted it and explained my vision he latched on.

In the end, there are many ways to skin this cat but Trevor is even more conservative than I - at least with my stock We think it is a small wedge cut, raphia, 6.5-7 Copper wire and a shed load of patience. He noted that while not thick it was quite old, very dense wood with very little give (he played with it a lot) and to get the kind of movement that I need would require patience or that old Japanese approach with metal bars etc ... as per Kawasumi's picture below. He also thought it would look fine in the branch snaps and I am left with a jin or nothing....

So now .... to find some proper raphia, some thick copper wire (Trev doesn't stock it anymore) and spoonful of patience. I'll update this thread when that initiative is taken - it might takes some time now as I am back at work on Tuesday. We'll see.

You know what was most satisfying? Trevor's comment about how I had taken this tree and made it my own... that, in Trevor's eyes, is what it is all about and we were both energised by the discussion re: the vision for this tree. Good stuff. All cool.

Did I tell you we removed some crud Aggies too.

PS - it was interesting to note Trevor's parting comment too. The fight really starts now in two areas ... this tree will be made if...
- I can get that branch working and
- a lot will hinge on how I treat those roots and how they make sense when it is all potted up. Bring on the challenge.

[TimS]

Well done on ridding a few more of the scourge of aggies from the universe! You do a great service to the world indeed. It still boggles my mind that people buy them and plant them in good sanity.

I'm always interested to hear how people find interacting with Trevor; a very knowledgeable guy for sure but he can be a little hard to illicit much from in my small experiences with him. I haven't been by for a while as my garden is over capacity for trees, but when i went frequently i found having much a conversation with him a bit of a challenge.

Best of luck with the next step with this tree, i think if you can pull off what you plan it will be a sensational tree quite frankly. I had sworn off junipers years ago after my first shimpaku died and i found out my skin doesn't much like needle junipers, but perhaps it is more than a little unfair to judge all shimpaku by my own hamfisted early days of bonsai and i should give them another chance.

[Ryceman3]

So now .... to find some proper raphia,

The best place I have found to get raffia is Spotlight... I s#!t you not. Cheap there too.

Good luck with it. The best news with this is it’s a win/win... even if the bend doesn’t work out, a Jin on top would work fine... and if the Jin doesn’t eventuate I can see it without that too!

[MJL]

Ok - last day before I get back to work. So with the great relief of this forum .... less posts from this pest from now on.

Now - this is sure a team effort. A big thanks for all the advice and feedback. Team effort of suppliers too. On the back of Bonsai Art yesterday, the gent from Collectors Corner actually gave me a piece of his private 7mm wire - they are not selling it at present. Gee people are nice. Spotlight had the raphia and I needed a little saw too - the big green box for that.

IMG_6326.jpg

I actually spent a lot more time reading and with videos today and decided that Ken’s advice on this forum was what I would take - a notch/wedge cut was not needed. Just harden up like a lot of people have inferred and bend the branch!

So - with overkill on the raphia - which may have made it even harder to bend - not sure. Here is where I got too.

To be honest - even though I didn’t here it crack it must have! Who’s knows what’s under that raphia and what will survive of that branch.

IMG_6328.jpg

IMG_6329.jpg

IMG_6330.jpg

Clearly it’s not fully resolved- in truth I got a little lost and decided to stop playing!

I wanted this branch to have its own top a - which it sort of now does ... but it also would look good if I merged it with the bottom third too .... I’ll leave it now.

I need a drink!

Thanks again for everyone’s help in this thread - you’re all ace!

Cheers,

Mark


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[MJL]

Just another call out to AnthonyW. Anthony, I did try to emulate (or at least use as inspiration your drawing) as indicated below -

phpXkZFkkAM.jpg

However it was tricky to get the bends right ...it looks like only one bend is needed to align it to your drawing but photos are deceiving that first part of the trunk is too long ... I might be able to use a clamp to get another bend in that part below.

IMG_6329.jpg

Just wanted to say thanks for the drawing - I did not ignore it - it's just my ability to execute that design that is in question.

[Ryceman3]

Whatever happens, bending it down to be more sympathetic with the cascade branch was required in my opinion... good, gutsy move.

[anthonyW]

Well done, looks like the top needs lie down a bit to flow with the tail/keeper all in good time (mind you 2d/flat pictures don tell whole story).

Don t have to be exact Mark, only looking to bridge the gap abit mate, your eye will tell you, beer time now brother...

cheers Anthony

[MJL]

Thanks AW and R3 - feedback appreciated and yep, I will lay that top down in due course. Beer had yesterday one to be had shortly. [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]


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[kcpoole]

Awesome result
Like anthony has added, the new top section needs to be bent in the staight section to bring it down as well bu grest result

Ken

[GavinG]

Good work from all concerned. MJL, would you consider putting a little forward-and-backward movement in that first branch? It seems to me that it might be a little two-dimensional. Hard to tell from photos of course.

Gavin