Scots Pine ideas

[CraigM]

Have been eying this tree for a while, love the lower trunk and bark. Was supposed to be a landscape tree, but think there is some real potential.

Any concerns reducing the top of the tree now, or should this be done in stages to prevent root die back? The tree will need time to fill out, so was thinking about reducing now and fertilizing and leaving to grow. Any bends to the main branch would be done now, would apply rafia, and then would leave to grow.

Any suggestions / comments welcome.

[shibui]

In your climate you should be able to prune scots pine any time of year. As far as I know you can reduce the trunk in 1 go as long as you leave a viable branch with needles as a leader to keep it alive. fertilising is a must to get good response from any tree.

Any bends to the main branch would be done now, would apply rafia, and then would leave to grow.

How thick is this branch and how severe do you intend to bend? Most pines are very flexible and bend easily. i see lots of beginners wrapping branches to put in mild bends - a huge waste of time and resources

[CraigM]

Thanks. Diameter of trunk is around the size of a softdrink can. The main branch, first section at the base is around 20mm and reduces to around 15mm, this would be section to the right. Second section from 15mm down would bend back and then left, and try and compact. Was thinking of using rafia on the first section into the bend and around, necessary or waste fo time?

The green line to the right gives an indication of where I was thinking, sorry editing software is nonexistent at present. Looking at the base of the branch now when measuring, will battle bringing down like indicated, so perhaps will need to settle for something in between.

[shibui]

Thanks Craig. it is bigger than it looks in the photos. At 20-15 mm thick and with the quite severe bends you are planning I think raffia is probably a good idea. I would experiment with some similar thickness branches in the redundant top to see how much bend can be applied before they break when unwrapped. that ill give you an idea of how far you can push the chosen branch.

[CraigM]

Shibui, good idea to try on redundant branch, snapped a lot easier than I expected made me rethink, original plan was far too extreme for what the material would allow. The main trunk diameter is slightly thinner than first mentioned, closer to iPhone, bark is very thick.

Was cleaning the weeds out, and removed about an inch of soil and discovered fairly big chunk of roots, with plenty character. Some are crossing, will consider removing a couple, but also adds to the movement and feel, depending on which front I go with. Will be interesting to see when the tree is repotted (not now, will consider towards end spring, or give a full season to recover), it must have reached capacity in it's previous container at some stage, and was planted up to a bigger one.

Now faced with two possible fronts, would appreciate some views. Have made a couple sketches (first attempt), should give an idea. Number of the branches are lacking growth close to trunk, so will either reduce to side shoot once growing, or would consider trying to graft shoots where I need them (good / bad idea?). The top jin I will carve later, once I've decided on a front.

Any ideas welcome.

[shibui]

'B' appears to have the best lines at this stage but I think D could be just as nice.
'A' looks a bit awkward with the 1st branch, jin and trunk junction all at the same place.
'C' has some merit and you could leave that low branch on while you develop the apex - just in case it does look really good. Can always jin it later.

Nice looking drawings too by the way

[bonsaibeginer]

I would experiment with some similar thickness branches in the redundant top to see how much bend can be applied before they break when unwrapped. that ill give you an idea of how far you can push the chosen branch.

Hi Neil. Just a question about the above, I had a juniper wrapped and bent for approx 4 months, the trunk had a fair bend in it but looked like it was doing well... up until the time I removed the wire and raffia. Then with no real difference in care or position this tree has browned off and I'm assuming is now gone?
would removing the raffia have done this or is it just a lost tree? Don't know if I've read too much into your statement.
Cheers Grant
Craig, I have to agree with Neil too, those are some excellent drawings mate you have a real talent there.

[jezz_39]

Looks like a great starting point. I think sketch B is the most balanced and interesting

[Gerard]

Nice drawings, have you considered keeping the branch and removing the jin?
I think we sometimes try too hard to incorporate jins on conifers. Junipers are different lots of jins are always good. On pines we do not need jins every time.
If you decide to keep the jin then you should expect deadwood to occur down the trunk, you could control the direction of the shari which might move across the front of the trunk and disguise the straight section.

[shibui]

I had a juniper wrapped and bent for approx 4 months, the trunk had a fair bend in it but looked like it was doing well... up until the time I removed the wire and raffia. Then with no real difference in care or position this tree has browned off and I'm assuming is now gone?

BB. Hard to tell from where I'm sitting. I sincerely doubt that removing the wire and raffia would cause the tree to die unless you were unduly rough doing it? It is possible that bending the trunk separated the cambium layers and it never recovered. Junipers can take quite a few months to show the results of damage. This has happened to me a few times but fortunately with smaller stock so no real loss. i suspect that severe bending in summer has potential for this and maybe winter bending when cambium is less active is better but cannot be sure without more trialling ( maybe its the other way round?? - summer bending better because cambium heals quicker when active???)
Also possible that removing raffia and wire and death were just co-incidental and nothing to do with each other. Very difficult to say with just 1 event. All of us need to keep better records of what we do and when to identify trends rater than 1 off events.

I'm assuming your juniper was pretty young and flexible if you removed the wrapping after only 4 months. it would take much longer to set a decent bend in an older piece of juniper wood.

[CraigM]

Thanks all for the suggestions, looks like B is taking the lead at present.

Gerard, did not consider removing jin, assume you're talking about the left lower branch in diagram A. Can see what you mean, also has potential. Agree that jin is not always necessary, but think it would add value. Will see how the lower left develops over the next couple seasons and decide from there. If I did decide to keep jin, will look at extending shari down the trunk, thanks for suggestion.

For now, think will keep the branches I have, reduce and wire what I have, and see how the tree fills out. Thanks for the comments on the drawings, will give me more time to practise

[Haydenmc]

B for me. Pretty great sketches too.


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[kcpoole]

A looks good but the left branch looksw funny, Differnet angle that the other branches is not harmonious IMHO
B looks almost literati like and like the upper section thge most
C looks nice but the bed to the right is soot sever on the second section of trunk. like the shape more in "A"
D Nice! almost looks like the tree hanging off a cliff.

when you test wired the branch, was it raffiaed? Surprised a branch that size broke if you did

Ken

[CraigM]

Thanks Ken, no the branch was unwrapped as suggested by Shibui, to understand the limit before wrapping. It had been raining as well, and tree was wet, should also have waited for tree to dry out before attempting, but was enough to make me rethink. The shape in A is better anyway, so no longer need extreme bends.

[KIRKY]

Craig, how is this tree progressing? Any updates?
Cheers
Kirky