How to develop semi-cascade neagari JBP

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How to develop semi-cascade neagari JBP

Postby Ces » March 9th, 2015, 3:17 pm

Hey guys,

I seem to be full of questions at the moment. I appreciate your help guys.

I'm looking at starting some exposed root black pine stock and have done a fair amount of reading on the subject. I get the basic process of how to start this style of tree but I have yet to find any information that details the process for developing semi-cascade trees. That is, where the roots emerge from the soil almost vertically or with some angle and then bend over like the trunk of a semi-cascading tree. see below for an example of a white pine in the style (though this might be considered a full cascade you get the idea)...

neagari semi-cascade pine.jpg


Any and all help and advice appreciated guys.

Cheers,

Ces.
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Re: How to develop semi-cascade neagari JBP

Postby Andrew F » March 9th, 2015, 5:11 pm

I cant really offer any help [sorry in advance] but I will subscribe to this thread, very fond of both semi cascade and neagari style bonsai.

:reading: :reading: :reading: :reading: :reading:
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Re: How to develop semi-cascade neagari JBP

Postby Scott Roxburgh » March 9th, 2015, 8:37 pm

Check out Eric's blog:
http://www.phutu.com/exposed-root-pine-2/

Another student of Boon, like Jonas, and full of great info.

Send him an email if you have specific questions.

I have recently started some exposed root cascades, followed the process above and then I just bent them over close to soil level. I have yet to unearth any roots. I assume the cascade branches will be weaker than upright branches like most cascades.
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Re: How to develop semi-cascade neagari JBP

Postby Ces » March 10th, 2015, 3:07 am

Thank you very much Scott. That's a great link. Good eye for Jonas' work. Any chance of some photos of your trees in training?

I'll keep researching, so we can keep the thread informative, Andrew. It would be great if you could add anything you have learned.

I'm going to put a few radiatas through the process as well, mainly because I have a heap of collected seedlings from the the Southern Highlands.

Here we go again, more stock to hide from SWMBO. :palm: :tounge: :lol:

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Re: How to develop semi-cascade neagari JBP

Postby shibui » March 10th, 2015, 6:00 am

The few exposed root trees I have started are trident maples and Chinese elms but the same techniques will work with any tree. If anything, it should be easier to create a semicascade from pine because the roots are far more flexible than the tridents.
I try to select young plants with plenty of roots. If there are any strong, longer ones cut them to even up the roots.
Plant in a deeper than normal container with roots heading downward instead of spreading them radially as we usually do.
Allow your tree to grow freely for the following year to thicken both tree and roots.
For semicascade I would be trying to develop at least 1 strong low branch to use as the future trunk. Upright trunks will be sacrifice branches to help the tree and roots thicken. Remember with pines you do need to keep shoots and needles wherever you want future branches so keep a watch and prune when necessary to keep growth along your intended trunk and branches.

After the first year of growth I bare root again to check placement of roots. When they thicken they will be very difficult to move so get it right early. I think this is one reason why we do not see more exposed roots. The more elements you have in a bonsai the harder it becomes to have them all look good. As mentioned pine roots are quite flexible so you may still be able to adjust roots after 2 or 3 years. You do need to allow for roots to thicken so make plenty of space between roots. Like multiple trunks above ground exposed roots should harmonise so move or remove crossing roots and those that go against the flow. I think that compressed roots on the leaning side and stretched roots on the far side looks natural but they will probably grow like that anyway as the weight of the trunk applies pressure.

When you think the roots are strong enough to support the weight of the tree you can plant it higher in the pot. I'm not sure how long that will take with pine but my root over rock pines were definitely several years slower than maples to develop decent roots. If the roots are sufficiently developed you can expose all in 1 go but may need to do it in stages as roots grow and strengthen over several years.

Here's a photo of my Chinese elm.
chinese elm exposed root 2013 1 2.JPG

note there was no initial placement of roots on this one and the arrangement is not ideal. As above I would now look at and adjust roots as they developed before they harden too much.
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Re: How to develop semi-cascade neagari JBP

Postby Reece » March 10th, 2015, 7:59 am

I have a 2 year old pine starter and Ive been trying to figure out what direction to go...... Looks like this is it! Thanks guys......


Scott Roxburgh wrote:Check out Eric's blog:
http://www.phutu.com/exposed-root-pine-2/

Another student of Boon, like Jonas, and full of great info.

Send him an email if you have specific questions.

I have recently started some exposed root cascades, followed the process above and then I just bent them over close to soil level. I have yet to unearth any roots. I assume the cascade branches will be weaker than upright branches like most cascades.
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Re: How to develop semi-cascade neagari JBP

Postby Andrew F » March 10th, 2015, 8:36 am

Thanks to that great link Scott shared, I found this although not neagari its explains how people achieve those gnarly entanglements of roots just before the soil line.

Just in case anyone else is a fan as well.

2014-11-27-22.52.16-1024x682.jpg
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Re: How to develop semi-cascade neagari JBP

Postby Scott Roxburgh » March 12th, 2015, 9:14 pm

A quick snap of the easy to access ones.

Largest is 2yo, smaller done earlier this year, smallest pulled out of seedling tray today and potted.

A couple more 2yo ones to be done when leaves drop as an experiment on repot timing.

If anyone else has any in progress, post some pics.
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Re: How to develop semi-cascade neagari JBP

Postby Ces » March 13th, 2015, 3:35 am

Thanks guys. Really helpful tips and pics. Appreciate it.

Shibui, thank you for the detail. That lays out a good framework for anyone to follow.

Thanks again guys.

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Re: How to develop semi-cascade neagari JBP

Postby peterb » March 13th, 2015, 6:24 pm

Hi Ces
Well put , the detail and info is clear and well laid out. It is great to have people on this forum of the quality and experience that we do , most of them have had to put in the hard yards and trials to gain their knowledge as there wasn't the facilities back when they started out , and the fact that they are willing to share their knowledge with us newbies . Thanks guys this is a great forum :clap: :clap: :hooray:
kind regards
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Re: How to develop semi-cascade neagari JBP

Postby Bonsaifan » March 14th, 2015, 10:03 pm

Hi ces

Checkout worldofbonsai eps14 talks about this in the first 5 mins.

Cheers
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Re: How to develop semi-cascade neagari JBP

Postby Scott Roxburgh » August 18th, 2018, 10:36 pm

A bit of progress but goes to show that you shouldn't leave them in small containers for too many years

Resized_20180818_163048_1785.jpeg
Resized_20180818_222827_1771.jpeg
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