Determining needle age?

[Piscineidiot]

Hi guys,

I just bought my first JBP at the Illawarra bonsai show. It's a little fellow, but it seems to have a lot of potential, and the ladies at the show gave me some great tips about looking after it/styling it.

I've been reading a lot about needle thinning/reduction etc., and I keep hearing that you should remove the OLD needles (3 years), and not this year's, or even last year's growth. The problem for me, is that I have no idea what the tree has put out over the last year or two (since I've only just come into possession of this tree)...

Is there a visual way to tell how old a set of needles are, so I can decide whether or not I want to remove them?

Thanks for your help,

Owen

[Jarad]

Hey Mate,

I wouldn't be able to tell you off the top of my head, but people here will. I would recommend getting your hands on a copy of Leongs Pine book (from Bonsai South in caringbah give the nursery a call).

Also, leave needles where you would like the tree to thicken. There is an excellent YouTube video (links posted by Dario on page 2) on pines here:
viewtopic.php?f=131&t=15503

Chuck a photo of your trees up so the guys here can give you a visual of what they look like.

[Piscineidiot]

Thanks Jarad, I'll have to take some photos of the little guy.

[dansai]

Thinning needles is for balancing energy once the tree is being refined. If the tree is young you only remove the old needles to keep the tree free of dead needles for airflow and light. The older needles will be dull, yellowing or already dead. This time of year is when pines shed there old needles.

A photo would help as already suggested.

[Piscineidiot]

Thanks, Dansai. I'll take some photos today/tomorrow.

[Piscineidiot]

Hi guys,

Here's a pic of the JBP in question:

[dansai]

Hi Piscineidiot,

Probably no need to remove any of the needles as they all look healthy and you want to build the strength and vigour of your tree.

However, it appears as though you have 2 branches at the back of the tree in the photo that are above the leader you have wired up and another one coming from below the leader coming from what would be the inside of a curve with another coming from the back at this point. I would remove the 2 at the back above the leader and if there is one behind the point where the leader and branch below it come out then remove the lower branch and leave the rest to grow strongly through winter and spring. You can then cut back hard in early summer to get more branching closer to the trunk. But before you do anything a few more pics from different angles will give us a better idea on what is going on.

Other things to consider is joining a club if you haven't already to get some hands on advice. Also update your location in your profile as Australia is a big place and different parts have different requirements and timing. If you let us know where in Australia you are we can be more specific with advice.

[Piscineidiot]

Thanks dansai,

Being new to pines, I'm just a bit paranoid about lopping too much off at once (I'd really like for this one to last). I've actually already cut 3 inches or so off the top (which included a few smaller branches and buds), and that busy mess you see on the bottom left is actually a branch I've reduced by a third, and am only leaving on as a sacrifice (on advice from one of the lovely ladies at the Illawarra bonsai show).

I was thinking I might just take it slow and let the little dude gain its full vigour and grow its buds before I chop back anymore. Or is that a bad idea?

I was considering joining the club, but I don't know how happy I would be to be driving an hour each way to the monthly meeting. I'd certainly love to join a club, but travelling that far for a meeting that's only a couple hours long is hard to justify.

[Jarad]

It's only once a month dude. Not like you gotta do it every day/week.

Go once, see if you like it then join if you feel like it.

[Piscineidiot]

Oh I realise that, Jarad.

I met a few of the people from the club at the show, and I really appreciated their advice and found them lovely.

My issue is that my partner and I don't get to see each other all that often (both being scientists, and having pretty hectic travel schedules), so I'd rather spend time with her when the opportunity presents itself. If the meetings were during the day on a weekend, I'd have no issue. Just a matter of my priorities being what they are at this point.

[kcpoole]

Oh I realise that, Jarad.

I met a few of the people from the club at the show, and I really appreciated their advice and found them lovely.

My issue is that my partner and I don't get to see each other all that often (both being scientists, and having pretty hectic travel schedules), so I'd rather spend time with her when the opportunity presents itself. If the meetings were during the day on a weekend, I'd have no issue. Just a matter of my priorities being what they are at this point.

Take her along too Spend an hour Quality time on the way and back

it is always a difficult decision to make, Bonsai or Family
Maybe check out Mason down at Nowra way for a visit every now and again and take the significant other of a day out

Personal interaction with your trees and others really make a difference to them.
Ken

[Jarad]

I can understand that. Family first.

I thought clubs did weekends too, looks like Illawarra doesn't, that sucks. Do the club's around Sydney do weekends? The CCBS does weekend workshops, but 2hrs of driving would be a little too far.

[Piscineidiot]

Ken, you're very right. Even the brief conversations with the ladies at the show was enlightening. I'll look into the fella in Nowra.

Yep, Jarad. Family first. I'll just have to have a look around and see if there are any other clubs, or any club members who wouldn't mind getting together for a tree style etc.

Thanks for your input,

Owen

[kez]

Hey Owen,

I'm in wollongong, would be happy to lend another pair of eyes

Kerrin

[dansai]

I'ld be jumping on kerrins offer Owen. It's hard to get good info on early pine development. There is heaps on refinement that can seem overwhelming until you practice it but little on what to do earlier on. Having someone there with you will help greatly. It can also be hard to absorb all the information in one chat so forming relationships with other enthusiasts is well worth the effort.

Good luck and keep us posted.