'Kyoto nishiki' Japanese black pine

[cottie]

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I recently found this black pine at a local nursery, it was quite reasonably priced for such a large tree, it is around 1.5m tall and the trunk is around 95 mm at soil level.I have only had a little bit of a scratch around the trunk and there seems to be quite a bit of spread under the soil. My plan for the tree is to layer of the top of the tree and use the lowest branches to build a new tree. I haven't been able to find much info on 'Kyoto nishiki' but as the 'nishiki' suggest it has really nice bark. Is it to late to start a layer on this tree this year given that I'm in Tassie?

[treeman]

I think that should probably be ''Kyokko''

[cottie]

Thanks Treeman I was going on the nursery label but you could be right.

[shibui]

Not sure how this cv takes air layer but I don't think it is ever too late to start an air layer. Pines can take quite a while to produce roots so it may be next summer before there are enough roots to take the top off.

[Black Knight]

cottie,

I believe your label cold be spot on- Pinus thunbergii "Kyotto Nishiki". A small form of the "Japanese Black Pine". A compact shrub with rigid dark green needles. Upright at first, becoming rounder with age. Grows more than 2M. Reference- Conifer Garden Nursery

Regards,
Black Knight

[cottie]

Thanks for the info Shibui and Black Knight. I have air layered easy trees like Japanese maples but I'm still a bit nervous about tackling the black pine. Does anyone have any tips on layering black pines?

[treeman]

cottie,

I believe your label cold be spot on- Pinus thunbergii "Kyotto Nishiki". A small form of the "Japanese Black Pine". A compact shrub with rigid dark green needles. Upright at first, becoming rounder with age. Grows more than 2M. Reference- Conifer Garden Nursery

Regards,
Black Knight

Thanks for that Black Knight. I had never heard of this variety. Now I need a closer look at them..

[treeman]

Thanks for the info Shibui and Black Knight. I have air layered easy trees like Japanese maples but I'm still a bit nervous about tackling the black pine. Does anyone have any tips on layering black pines?

After looking up the Nishiki cultivars, I believe this is Kyokko. This is the only named variety of Nishiki I have seen in this country. (there is at least 1 or 2 other unnamed vars that I know of) Not able to find kyotto anywhere and knowing
CGN's labeling it is most likely misnamed.
As for the layering. It is well worth attempting! If this is Kyokko, it should work well as this is the cultivar used in Japan for taking cuttings so rooting should be ok. I did layerings of these a few years back. They have the problem of often producing only one or two roots. Sometimes you're lucky and get roots all around. Use the wire tourniquet method and sphag moss wrapped in plastic. Do as many as you can to give you maximum chance of getting a good one. I did have one layer that produced only one root and this eventually became the trunk of the tree with a nebari forming at ground level so all is not lost if this happens. Use only braches which have not developed much bark yet. Hormones are unnecessary. The older the branch the fewer roots and the less likelyhood of success. Layering Nishiki gives you the great advantage of having a tree whose rough bark extends all the way down to the roots. You will end up with a valuable tree which you would have every right to demand a high price for. However they are much more delicate and slow on their own roots.

[Bonsaifan]

I have been able to air layer a "thunderhead" black pine - of the three i had attempted on the same tree only one was successful.
I followed Ray M guide for black pines. The two which were unsuccessful i believe was the result of too much moisture build up. The one which did take only had 2 roots and at the risk of those roots rotting i potted it up and it survived.
Good luck with the air layer.

[cottie]

Thanks Treeman, I was going to try airlayering the trunk where the bark has already started to cork, but after reading your info it sounds like I'm better off concentrating on layering the branches.

[Paul W]

Try and get Ray M involved with this,he is a Master of the air layer and a nice bloke to boot.

[cottie]

I decided to attempt 3 layers in January of 2016. Two of the layers took and although I would have liked to leave them on the tree a little longer, the parent tree was knocked over in a wind storm in July of this year resulting in the forced removal of the layers. As you can see on one of the photos the roots are quite vigorous and have grown through the bottom of the pot.

[Watto]

Congratulations, two out of three aint bad!

[cdk_aus]

I found 5 or 6 of these plants about 1 metre tall with quite thick trunk base, in 45 cm pots for about $129 each in a local nursery.

Its June. These plants have 4cm candles on them. This surprised me a bit. Maybe they came down from up North.
They seem to be growing 3 months early at the beginning of the Melbourne winter.

If I bought one, will decandling now be OK, going into winter.

In any case at 1 metre, I would probably want to cut it down to 60cm or less but maybe the soil depth needs to be reduced and the roots pruned first.

So, can anyone suggest a plan, including do not buy now !

Any ideas?

[Ryceman3]

I found 5 or 6 of these plants about 1 metre tall with quite thick trunk base, in 45 cm pots for about $129 each in a local nursery.

Its June. These plants have 4cm candles on them. This surprised me a bit. Maybe they came down from up North.
They seem to be growing 3 months early at the beginning of the Melbourne winter.

If I bought one, will decandling now be OK, going into winter.

In any case at 1 metre, I would probably want to cut it down to 60cm or less but maybe the soil depth needs to be reduced and the roots pruned first.

So, can anyone suggest a plan, including do not buy now !

Any ideas?

Without pictures I could suggest a million things and really just be shooting in the dark. The one thing I’m pretty confident with though is decandling now would not be OK… unless you’re in the Melbourne that is in Canada… because that’s in the northern hemisphere and it’s about to hit summer there so the timing is OK, but again… without pictures I’m not even really prepared to recommend that. It’s all just speculation…