JBP

[treeman]

I think you should have cut the straight part as Ken suggested. That would have given you the start to better taper for the future. Your wiring is pretty good for the most part but keep in mind that you should strive as much as possible to keep the coils to 45 degrees. The areas marked in red are strangled. There is no problem in carefully removing the wire and re-doing it. Good practice anyway...
Also, it does not look like repotting is particularly urgent to me.

bpw.JPG

[Ilithya]

Thanks everyone for your respond and advice. I been busy for the last couple of days and Im not online. when I get home this morning this is what I did before I go to bed. im not sure if I did the right thing?

Thanks
Ilithya



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[Ilithya]

Nice neat wiring and bending is OK but I feel it is a bit monotonous - same bend repeating. natural bends are more random I think.
Taper is probably even more important than movement in bonsai trunks. This one has a little bit of taper in the first part then none for the rest of the tree. taper is best developed by cutting back and regrowing. I know that means it will take longer but a good tree is far more satisfying than an ordinary bonsai.

I also agree with Kirky about apical dominance in pines. That first branch is already very weak and so is the tiny shoot at the back. I would take out most of the top, just leave the first 2 branches in that top section if you want to keep that height. taking out most of the top will divert some energy to those lower branches and could save them.

Another problem with pines is that they don't bud easily on bare wood. The branch you have kept on the right is 2 years old (new section brownish bark, older section below) Next summer those older needles will drop off leaving a long thin bare branch with a tuft of needles at the end. Is that the sort of branch you want? I would cut that branch back leaving just 6-8 pairs of older needles. Buds should form from between those needles which will give you some branching closer to the trunk that you can use to build a decent branch structure.

You will be noticing by now that black pines (and pines in general) have very different growth patterns from most other trees. They need very different maintenance and growing techniques.

Thank you Shibui, I did not see all your comment when I did this today. where do I have to do cutting back? im really sorry for giving you guys headache. and sorry for my english.

Thank you
Ilithya

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[Ilithya]

I think you should have cut the straight part as Ken suggested. That would have given you the start to better taper for the future. Your wiring is pretty good for the most part but keep in mind that you should strive as much as possible to keep the coils to 45 degrees. The areas marked in red are strangled. There is no problem in carefully removing the wire and re-doing it. Good practice anyway...
Also, it does not look like repotting is particularly urgent to me.

bpw.JPG

Thank you Sir for the advice.

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[Ilithya]

You have too much growth still left at the top. If you leave it this way you risk losing the lower banches.
Pines are very strong growers at the top (apical) and will discard lower branches. Remove any bar branching at the top.
Cheers
Kirky

Thank you Sir for the advice

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[shibui]

That last photo is better. You have removed the large amount of shoots from the top so now the lower branches can grow. Also some more bend in the trunk
You still have 3 branches growing from the top but that will be ok for a couple of years. At some stage one of those will probably go.

Cutting back to make taper is usually quite severe cut but depends on your experience, what you want to achieve and how patient you are. I would probably cut this trunk just above either the 1st branch or the tiny little shoot at the back (2nd branch) That will leave almost no tree for now and would frighten most people but it would grow back and in a few years the tree will be much better. That's what I would do because I have plenty of trees to play with. Someone with just a few will not do the same. This is a choice and it is your choice.

This is a pine. Pines do not bud easily on bare wood. The branches you have wired down look good now but in a year all the older needles will drop off leaving bare sticks with a tuft of needles at the end. You must force it to produce plenty of new shoots on those branches for ramification so the branches will look like branches. Now is the time to cut those branch tips so you'll get more buds in spring. I would cut the tips out of every one now so there is only 6-8 needles on each branch. The branch on the right will be cut back more than the others because it is longer and stronger. Don't touch that little one at the back for now. It needs to get stronger.

im really sorry for giving you guys headache. and sorry for my english.

Advice is free and I am happy to help if you are willing to listen. No need to apologise for English as a second language. Yours is very good I just hope that you can get the meaning from our advice.

[Ilithya]

That last photo is better. You have removed the large amount of shoots from the top so now the lower branches can grow. Also some more bend in the trunk
You still have 3 branches growing from the top but that will be ok for a couple of years. At some stage one of those will probably go.

Cutting back to make taper is usually quite severe cut but depends on your experience, what you want to achieve and how patient you are. I would probably cut this trunk just above either the 1st branch or the tiny little shoot at the back (2nd branch) That will leave almost no tree for now and would frighten most people but it would grow back and in a few years the tree will be much better. That's what I would do because I have plenty of trees to play with. Someone with just a few will not do the same. This is a choice and it is your choice.

This is a pine. Pines do not bud easily on bare wood. The branches you have wired down look good now but in a year all the older needles will drop off leaving bare sticks with a tuft of needles at the end. You must force it to produce plenty of new shoots on those branches for ramification so the branches will look like branches. Now is the time to cut those branch tips so you'll get more buds in spring. I would cut the tips out of every one now so there is only 6-8 needles on each branch. The branch on the right will be cut back more than the others because it is longer and stronger. Don't touch that little one at the back for now. It needs to get stronger.

im really sorry for giving you guys headache. and sorry for my english.

Advice is free and I am happy to help if you are willing to listen. No need to apologise for English as a second language. Yours is very good I just hope that you can get the meaning from our advice.

Thank you again sir


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[Ilithya]

Sir Shibui, one more thing. can I have advice on this one please?

Thank you
Ilithya

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[shibui]

What you have don to the pine is not quite what I meant but it should still be OK. Time to leave it alone to recover. Just feed every 3-4 weeks until new shoots grow in spring. that you will get some back buds on those branches.

I think I posted advice on the azalea on your other thread?

[Ilithya]

What you have don to the pine is not quite what I meant but it should still be OK. Time to leave it alone to recover. Just feed every 3-4 weeks until new shoots grow in spring. that you will get some back buds on those branches.

I think I posted advice on the azalea on your other thread?

Thank you Shibui.

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[Ilithya]

Hello everyone, just wondering because i have this for more than 6 months already. what happen is all the needle turn brown and only few left. what is the best thing to do can i cut it and make it into shohin? they dont get sun outside my balcony?

Thank you
Ilithya

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[KIRKY]

I believe you have over worked ths Pine . "IF" ??? it survives you need to stop working it. Leave it alone to recover at least 12 months. Pines also need to be in full sun. Water when dry with seasol. Don't over water as with so few needles it will not draw much water up and you risk drowning the roots. Root rot will kill it. If any more needles fall it will probably die. i stress again leave it to recover and keep your fingers crossed.
Cheers
Kirky

[Ilithya]

I believe you have over worked ths Pine . "IF" ??? it survives you need to stop working it. Leave it alone to recover at least 12 months. Pines also need to be in full sun. Water when dry with seasol. Don't over water as with so few needles it will not draw much water up and you risk drowning the roots. Root rot will kill it. If any more needles fall it will probably die. i stress again leave it to recover and keep your fingers crossed.
Cheers
Kirky

Thank you sir kirky

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[Keep Calm and Ramify]

Ilithya,
Have to agree with Kirky here - Pines really need good full sun. If your balcony is also covered from above (or partially enclosed?) you will struggle even more. I hope this tree survives for you - but if not, don't be disheartened (we've all had a plant suicide on us )
You've personally gained valuable experience & know what some of the limits will be next time round. I feel from reading some of your posts, that you may be a little anxious to achieve too much too soon? Maybe concentrate on developing your horticulture skills for a little, and enjoy this aspect of bonsai, without worrying about making a "bonsai". You never know what nice surprises you could end up with.

[Ilithya]

Ilithya,
Have to agree with Kirky here - Pines really need good full sun. If your balcony is also covered from above (or partially enclosed?) you will struggle even more. I hope this tree survives for you - but if not, don't be disheartened (we've all had a plant suicide on us )
You've personally gained valuable experience & know what some of the limits will be next time round. I feel from reading some of your posts, that you may be a little anxious to achieve too much too soon? Maybe concentrate on developing your horticulture skills for a little, and enjoy this aspect of bonsai, without worrying about making a "bonsai". You never know what nice surprises you could end up with.

Sir Keep calm and ramify,

Thank you for your advice. im sorry for the late reply. ill sent my pines, azalea and maple to my brother place and ill place to full sun since im away for holiday. hopefully they will get better and survive.

Thank you and god bless us all
Ilithya

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