Pine ID & Shaping Advice

[count_thumper]

Hi All,

This pine has been sitting around for a while as I have been sure how to approach it.

(Apologies for the crappy photos, hard to get a good perspective.)
https://imgur.com/gallery/gzEgd

I was thinking of turning it into a literati and using raffia to bend the top / although maybe it's too heavy an approach and would just snap the branch?


Also any ID on the type of pine? I was thinking maybe a black pine, but the buds are so large.



Many thanks!

[RogerW]

My money is on Japanese Black Pine, definitely a two needle pine..

Roger

[shibui]

There are lots of pine species that look similar but I'll also go for Japanese Black pine just because they are common as bonsai and this one has the characteristics.
It is very difficult to give styling advice just from one 2d picture. We cannot imagine the trunk movement, etc.

I suspect you already know that options are limited because pines don't bud well on bare wood.
You can cut it down to the lower branches and grow a new tree under controlled conditions but that will take a few years. That should give you trunk taper and branch density which the current tree lacks.
You can work with what's there:
Use the long, taperles trunk and try for literati. Note that literati looks easy but is far more challenging to get right.
Bend the trunk in a few places to get some dynamic trunk movement and use the existing branches wired into position to supply the filling branches. Study some older, collected Japanese junipers and pines to see how they wire branches from near the top of the tree to supply lower foliage.

[quote][/I was thinking of turning it into a literati and using raffia to bend the top / although maybe it's too heavy an approach and would just snap the branch? quote] I can see at least 2 branches at the top of this tree. One looks very strong and will be difficult to bend but there are techniques if you really want it to happen. The thinner one should bend quite readily if that's what you decide to do.

[count_thumper]

There are lots of pine species that look similar but I'll also go for Japanese Black pine just because they are common as bonsai and this one has the characteristics.
It is very difficult to give styling advice just from one 2d picture. We cannot imagine the trunk movement, etc.

I suspect you already know that options are limited because pines don't bud well on bare wood.
You can cut it down to the lower branches and grow a new tree under controlled conditions but that will take a few years. That should give you trunk taper and branch density which the current tree lacks.
You can work with what's there:
Use the long, taperles trunk and try for literati. Note that literati looks easy but is far more challenging to get right.
Bend the trunk in a few places to get some dynamic trunk movement and use the existing branches wired into position to supply the filling branches. Study some older, collected Japanese junipers and pines to see how they wire branches from near the top of the tree to supply lower foliage.

[/I was thinking of turning it into a literati and using raffia to bend the top / although maybe it's too heavy an approach and would just snap the branch? quote] I can see at least 2 branches at the top of this tree. One looks very strong and will be difficult to bend but there are techniques if you really want it to happen. The thinner one should bend quite readily if that's what you decide to do.

Thanks for that Shibui, I previously saw your comment but forgot to his send on the reply

I've thought it over and I like this pine quite a lot, so I'm going to get someone to do the work for me / rather than mess it up with my inexperience haha.


On a side note, the Shimpaku I bought from you about 10 months ago is thriving - you did a ripper job on the nebari!

Mike

[Keep Calm and Ramify]

I've thought it over and I like this pine quite a lot, so I'm going to get someone to do the work for me / rather than mess it up with my inexperience haha.

Count thumper,
Inexperience slowly dissolves with opportunities to experience.
An immediate result by someone else is nowhere near as important as gaining skills & building your confidence for many future results.
Maybe some technical guidance from a club member / workshop? but you'd be robbing yourself of enjoyment & satisfaction if it were not your hands working this tree.

nice pine btw... I like it quite a lot too....but it's calling out for YOU.

cheers Keep calm.

[count_thumper]

I've thought it over and I like this pine quite a lot, so I'm going to get someone to do the work for me / rather than mess it up with my inexperience haha.

Count thumper,
Inexperience slowly dissolves with opportunities to experience.
An immediate result by someone else is nowhere near as important as gaining skills & building your confidence for many future results.
Maybe some technical guidance from a club member / workshop? but you'd be robbing yourself of enjoyment & satisfaction if it were not your hands working this tree.

nice pine btw... I like it quite a lot too....but it's calling out for YOU.

cheers Keep calm.

You may be right!

But if I do an awful job, don't say I didn't tell you so

[adge0001]

Like others have said, I'd cut it right down to those low branches. Use one as a new leader and start working on your branching.

The reason is due to your tree being vary bare. there is so much space between your branches, in order to balance that out, it needs to do some serious trunk growing.