Cedrus Deodora I believe

[boom64]

Hi Mark ,
I am no expert on these but will outline the system I have been using for the last couple of years. I would cut back to figure one now and once new growth kicks in I would wait for the new shoot to grow to about two cm .Then pull out the growing tip with your finger and thumb , repeat this process every time new growth gets to two cm. Have been using this system for several years and am slowly getting some ramification happening. Hope this helps. Cheers John .

[Grant Bowie]

Can anyone advise the best time of the year to repot these in Sydney?


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Early spring just before or at bud burst. It is one of the few truly touchy species when it comes to repot timing in Sydney.

However being an established bonsai you should have no problems have a lot more leeway than the first time it is potted.

Grant

[MJL]

Cheers for the advice John (clipping) and Grant (repotting timing), appreciated.

On a separate issue - bl@@dy frustrating that I spelt the title wrong - a nice reminder of my own dumb@rse-ness every time I revisit this thread!


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[one_bonsai]

I would wait for the new shoot to grow to about two cm .Then pull out the growing tip with your finger and thumb , repeat this process every time new growth gets to two cm .

I don't get how this builds ramification if you keep on removing new growth.

[GavinG]

I'm no expert on cedars, but if you want the trunk to thicken a bit, you would leave the growth alone until spring, then cut back quite hard, repeat this for a few years. Grow long, cut back hard once a year. Makes a better tree in the long run, I think. It has graceful bones, but a bit more body would make it more convincing, for me.

Please keep posting as you go,

Gavin

[shibui]

I would wait for the new shoot to grow to about two cm .Then pull out the growing tip with your finger and thumb , repeat this process every time new growth gets to two cm .

I don't get how this builds ramification if you keep on removing new growth.

Maybe some confusion over what is meant? Taking the tip out does not always mean removing all new growth. Maybe just cut new section in half? Even if you do remove all the new growth it will usually build ramification. Most trees prefer to grow one long shoot from any point. When the tip is removed (or when the entire shoot is removed) dormant buds are activated along the remaining branch, often 2 or more so where there was only a single shoot, pinching the tip will force several to grow. Repeated pinching and pruning can double the number every time so more pinching = more ramification.

Here are some new photos - knowing that I have purchased a less than ideal weeping variety, I do want to keep control of growth.
Can I cut back again soon or wait for April? And I have included two photos of where I think I should cut back too. Any thoughts?

My deodars seem to grow constantly through summer. Every time shoots lengthen I pinch the tips. It is a constant job doing just a few every few days right through the growing season. when pinching, shorter is usually better so the first spot you've marked would be my preference. I don't normally let the shoots get this long. I let them grow to 1-3cm long before removing maybe 1/2 the new growth.
I agree with Gavin about needing a bit more substantial trunk. Unfortunately this genus seem to thicken very slowly and you can't really let them grow freely because they don't bud on older wood so always need to keep healthy shoots in or below the areas where you want the final tree.

[MJL]

Thanks everyone, love the advice and assistance. Much appreciated and I will take heed. Regarding trunk thickening - I agree it could be better and I understand the slow to thicken/lack of back-budding conundrum. Interestingly, by reducing the height about 6 inches a so far (from when I first purchased it); the trunk ‘looks’ thicker - relatively speaking.)

Onwards I plough....cheers.



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[one_bonsai]

Maybe some confusion over what is meant? Taking the tip out does not always mean removing all new growth. Maybe just cut new section in half? Even if you do remove all the new growth it will usually build ramification. Most trees prefer to grow one long shoot from any point. When the tip is removed (or when the entire shoot is removed) dormant buds are activated along the remaining branch, often 2 or more so where there was only a single shoot, pinching the tip will force several to grow. Repeated pinching and pruning can double the number every time so more pinching = more ramification.

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

[MJL]

Howdy folks.

I think this tree is improving. It is now more compact and the top has better form.

Unfortunately, rats or a possum got to one of the lower main branches in winter and I am wishing (with fingers crossed) that buds come...soon!

If not, I guess it becomes an interesting dead branch.

Anyway - some update pics below.

IMG_7146.jpeg

IMG_7147.jpeg

Really amazing how a different photo angle shows that I need to do something with that long, lower branch. (See below)

IMG_7149.jpeg

Ah, a rodent ate my branch below!

IMG_7150.jpeg

IMG_7152.jpeg

As always, advice welcome, I think I have applied some of it to date. It is due for its first trim of the season soon.

[one_bonsai]

Hi Mark ,
I am no expert on these but will outline the system I have been using for the last couple of years. I would cut back to figure one now and once new growth kicks in I would wait for the new shoot to grow to about two cm .Then pull out the growing tip with your finger and thumb , repeat this process every time new growth gets to two cm. Have been using this system for several years and am slowly getting some ramification happening. Hope this helps. Cheers John .

Does this apply to Atlantic Cedar also?

[MJL]

Howdy One_Bonsai,

Possibly best for John to respond but the answer is yes, I think. I am doing what John suggested on both type of cedars that I am looking after and they are responding well.

Cheers, Mark

[boom64]

Hi One Bonsai ,not to sure about Atlantics ,as the only one I had did not survive a repot.
Hi Mark ,The tree is looking very healthy ,you are certainly due to pull a few tips soon. Also could a sacrifice branch be used to thicken up the middle section. I grew one for three years on a pretty small tree. It was about a metre long and the bonsai about forty cm. Looked very funny but did the job. Better keep the cat outside in the future.
Cheers John.

[MJL]

Thanks for your advice John. Indeed, a photo tells a thousand words and I decided to pull tips immediately after the photo. In fact, in doing so, I saw numerous areas where I could cut back to the first two buds to drive a better structure and ramification in future.

I'll check out the idea of a sacrifice branch. Any ideas on where or how to encourage one? I am pretty sure these don't back bud on old wood... I wish ... and I think I need all the existing branches for balance.

OneBonsai - these photos below aren't great but they may show you enough. My Cedrus Atlantica responded beautifully to tip pulling and a trim recently. I also have a Cedrus Atlantica (Glauca) which has responded well too. Below are photos from the Atlantica and Deodara. Hopefully you can see whereI pulled the leading tip and how new growth as responded. Also - if anyone sees that I may have done it wrong in these photos - feel free to correct the record.

IMG_7153.jpeg

IMG_7155.jpeg

IMG_7156.jpeg

Also - when I purchased the Deodara - some noted a better species for bonsai is the Atlantica ... you can see why; the Atlantica seems to have more impact and less droopy growth. That said, I am designing both differently - providing more space for the Deodara to drape down when it does grow... while I need to keep on top of it for shape ... it I do let it go it does look quite beautiful and graceful with it's growth habit.

[MJL]

Just a pre-spring update. This is a tree with much work to do but enjoyable to work on. With the advice of good folk last spring - the tree is becoming denser - albeit it is hard to see in photos.

I am flattening the structure and I think the brach pads will develop better from here.

Unfortunately, the two branches eaten did not bounce back but I have wired to address the issue.

Anyway - really just a photographic record of a tree in development.



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[juan73870]

I think it looks great, MJL!
Great progression series in the making too