Raw JBP where to start

[Pat3222]

Morning all, I'm really new to bonsai and looking for advice for a Black Pine I'm stuck on. It wasn't grown as bonsai so has plenty of flaws, that said it's a freebie and it's here. I'm struggling with a vision for the tree so I can start removing unneeded branches and flaws. It's 6cm wide at the base and 50cm tall overall. The main trunk is pretty straight to 30cm tall where the main leader kicks sharply to the side. It has handlebars galore and I'd like to get cutting before the inverse taper is too bad to save. I'd prefer a bigger tree so not keen on shohin style which I guess leaves Informal upright or windswept? Love to hear some suggestions, I'm only months old in bonsai so need to work to my current skill base, otherwise have at it. Thanks in advance.

Pat

[Pearcy001]

G'day Pat.

Because it was never grown for bonsai that trunk is quite straight. You could try advanced bending techniques to try get some movement in it, but I'd be more inclined to chop low and regrow for both movement and taper (see attached virt).

Brush back the top layer or soil and try get a look at the roots. More often than not a tree needs to be styled starting at the roots, as the Nebari will somewhat predetermine the planting angle to an extent.

Geelong have a club to my understanding. I highly suggest checking it out as clubs have workshop nights where you can take your trees in to work on under the guidance of senior members.

Goodluck with the tree. Wait for all ideas first before you go ahead with any, I'm not as experienced with pines as others. And make sure you don't remove that really low shoot, as it will make a good sacrifice branch to thicken the Nebari in the future.

Cheers,
Pearcy.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Pat3222]

Thanks Pearcy!

Really appreciate you taking the time to do the virt! I was afraid a low chop might be on the cards. If that turns out to be the best option - is anything horticulturally stopping me from having a go at putting some bends in the trunk and giving it a serious haircut and style the same day as the trunk chop? Might get lucky and would be good practice if not going to impact the health of the tree.

I’ve been wanting to get down to the Geelong Club but having no luck lining up a meeting with a free night.

Cheers

Pat

[shibui]

Without seeing the tree in person it is hard to make informed advice.
1. I usually start assessing any tree at the roots. As Pearcy says, nebari is very important in most bonsai but you do have to work with whatever you have. Look for the side that shows the best spread of strong roots.
2. is the trunk. Look for the side and angle which gives best flow. Yours is rather straight but we can change that in several ways if necessary.
3. Branching. Most styles require well spaced branches, some toward the front and sides, a few at the rear to give depth. Look for a side of the tree that has best branching remembering that some can be removed to make space.
4. Features: Look for anything that stands out. Features can be dead wood, scars, really nice bends in trunk or branches, roots, etc. Anything that looks good can be a feature.
5. Faults: Look for things you don't want to show. Sometimes scars or wounds can be faults, reverse taper, bar branching, thick parts in the upper tree, etc can be faults.

Now look for one side of the tree that shows off as many good parts that you have identified and hides as many faults as possible. Sometimes you may need to chose slightly less attractive roots to have good branching and better trunk line and show a good feature or less than best trunk shape to get better roots and branches. How important various aspects are can depend on the species - nebari is less important than trunk in juniper, nebari is far more important in maples and branches can be regrown easily so branching has less importance.

From what I can see of your pine you will probably need to chop but may not need to cut as low as Pearcy has shown. Maybe one of the next cluster of branches could be a viable new leader? Especially as you have expressed a desire for a larger tree. Much will depend on how many shoots are on those ones and how much bare wood. It may also be possible to use one of the upper branches but all other thick branches must go from that cluster soon. Some shari or jins may be able to disguise any reverse taper there and convert that fault to a feature. Pines are relatively flexible so even quite thick wood can be bent so it may be possible to make some bends in your trunk.

Pines are reluctant to bud on older wood so you will need to cut back to smaller healthy shoots.

having a go at putting some bends in the trunk and giving it a serious haircut and style the same day as the trunk chop?

You should be able to do pruning, trimming and bending all at the same time. Many growers prefer not to do styling and repotting close together for fear of weakening the tree too much but above ground work only is considered safe.
As this pine has not been pruned much I would suggest pruning all branches back hard some time soon. Always cut to leave 4-6 healthy needles or a healthy side shoot or the branch will probably die. Growth has now finished so you probably won't see much movement until spring. I can cut pines hard any time of year but resulting shoots tend to vary depending on timing. Pines pruned from late summer through to spring usually grow larger new shoots the following spring. Pines pruned in later spring and early summer quickly grow many smaller new shoots during summer. Feed pines well all year round to get best budding and regrowth after hard pruning.

[Pat3222]

Thanks Neil, much appreciated. I’ll have a sit down when I get a chance this week and have a more informed look at it. Seems like a chop is on the cards from the advice so far. I’d reluctantly come to that conclusion too. I usually don’t have any problems visualising a direction or style for trees I’ve seen, in it’s current form I’m really struggling with this one, probably a sign there.

Regarding the above ground work being ok - I might as well get in some practice and try bending the trunk, pruning and wiring above the trunk chop level. If something usable appears I’m in front, if not lop it off anyway and be better off for the experience. Do you think this approach could have a negative impact on recovery post trunk chop?
Cheers and thanks again.
Pat

[shibui]

I would expect no adverse reaction to some playing with the trunk, just a commensurate delay in any healing if/when you do a chop because you have delayed the final cut.
As you say, ideal chance to try some advanced bending without fear of consequences.

[Pat3222]

And away I go then. Thanks again for the advice - appreciated!