THE PINE PROJECT

Forum for discussion of Pines, Junipers, Cedar etc as bonsai.

THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Ryceman3 » July 16th, 2018, 12:40 pm

OK – where to start?
I guess it was just over 12 months ago when I got my first JBP. Since then I have spent the year getting acquainted with pines and trying to understand the best way forward to get the best out of them as bonsai. In a quest for more knowledge, I stumbled across a pine growing competition on another forum (based in the US) where you have a six year window to grow the best JBP you possibly can – from seed…! I thought this sounded ludicrous, just the kind of thing I wanted to be a part of and so I began looking for JBP seed so I could get involved. Turns out, in Oz that is easier said than done. Most seed available online is not local, and importing restrictions therefore mean not available to me so I went searching through other avenues (including a shout out on Ausbonsai!) and thankfully for me a few obliging sources gave up some prized seed for me to play with. A massive thanks to those who were generous with their seed – you know who you are! :tu2: ;)

I scored some JBP seed but also got some JRP, Scots and Austrian Pine seeds while I was on the hunt. I ended up with quite a few pine seeds - BONUS!

I’ve spent at least the last 6 weeks or so formulating a plan of attack and gathering the raw materials to get me (hopefully) the best result possible from all these seeds I collected, and I thought I’d start a thread to document what I get up to.

Ideally I’d like to start this process in a few weeks from now, but a planned trip away in September has me wanting to get my seeds/seedlings up and growing before I head off. I have split the seeds into several batches and will try a few different things with timing and process to see what happens.

Round 1 : Includes 7 batches of seeds :
Batch A (JBP-40 seeds), Batch E (JBP-40 seeds), Batch I (JBP-40 seeds),Batch J (JRP-40 seeds), Batch K (JRP-12 seeds), Batch L (Scots-40 seeds) & Batch N (Austrian-40 seeds).

I soaked these seeds in their batches for 24 hours on July 8th, and since then they have been placed in plastic ziplock bags wrapped in damp paper towel and with a small amount of damp vermiculite to maintain humidity ... and put in the fridge. The JBP will stay in the fridge for 2 weeks or so before I sow them. The others will stay stratifying a little longer before being sown.
seeds_01.jpg

seeds_02.jpg

seeds_04.jpg

Round 2 : Includes 2 batches of seeds :
Batch O (Austrian-40 seeds) & Batch P (Austrian-12 seeds). These I plan to stratify (as above) for about 4 weeks before sowing. No photos ... cos photos of seeds in bags with vermiculite sitting in the fridge are pretty boring, see above!

I'll keep adding to this thread as things happen ... we'll see where it all ends up!
:beer:
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby boom64 » July 16th, 2018, 8:24 pm

A fantastic project Ryceman3 ,good luck .Looking forward to the next six years of updates......Cheers John.
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Tambrand » July 17th, 2018, 1:39 am

So did you join the J.b.pine six year ?
There are a few joining from the South Side [ Brazil etc ]
Laters,
Tambrand

My brother-in-law is handling the project.
We normally use the small clay pots shown not seed trays.
The S on the pot indicates that the seedling when being removed from the
seedling, came out with all of the seed mix [ commercial Canadian Peatmoss/Perlite with about 1/3 gravel ].

This year we germinated some 300 seedlings,normally only 30 are planted directly in the 30 clay pots.
30 were selected, the rest became gifts.

The larger pines are from other seed batches, in the pots we use for year 2.

New images will be added to the contest in September.

years1.jpg
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Ryceman3 » July 17th, 2018, 10:17 am

Tambrand wrote:So did you join the J.b.pine six year ?
There are a few joining from the South Side [ Brazil etc ]
Laters,
Tambrand


Hi Tambrand, yeah - you can find my entry here :
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/rycem ... try.34349/
Because that is directly related to the contest, I will only post about JBP there - this thread I'll put up the progress of all my pine seeds, not just the JBPs.

Tambrand wrote:My brother-in-law is handling the project.

I have seen the entry from your brother in law (I remember the images) ... I thought it was you!

We are a bit behind (6 months) in the Southern Hemisphere, obviously due to the seasonal differences, but like you say there are a few getting involved from below the equator so it will be fun to watch the development. We have the advantage of letting everyone else make the mistakes 6 months before we have to - hopefully we can learn from that!

boom64 wrote:A fantastic project Ryceman3 ,good luck .Looking forward to the next six years of updates......Cheers John.

Thanks for the "luck" John, I think I'll need it but I love a challenge!
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby melbrackstone » July 18th, 2018, 8:13 am

Good on you Ryceman, I look forward to seeing your results!
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby terryb » July 19th, 2018, 2:04 pm

I was also very fortunate to be offered a few dozen jbp seed to experiment with and I am very grateful to the ausbonsai member who graciously sent them to me. There are some undeniably nice people out there.

While I’m not intending to enter the fun and games described above, I will be following this thread to see how you get on @Ryceman3 and learn along the way. My seed have been soaked and are currently sharing the crisper with some other species I am stratifying.

Good luck
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Ryceman3 » July 19th, 2018, 5:20 pm

terryb wrote:While I’m not intending to enter the fun and games described above, I will be following this thread to see how you get on @Ryceman3 and learn along the way.
Good luck
Terryb


Oh come on @terryb ... gotta be in it to win it!! Just kidding ;) , I'll be interested to see how you go with your pine seeds though (and the others for that matter)- make sure you post about their progress.
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby terryb » July 19th, 2018, 6:12 pm

Ryceman3 wrote:Oh come on @terryb ... gotta be in it to win it!!


Hah! OCD for 6 years :shock: . Might try the next shoin comp if there is one; hopefully I can make 18 months ;)

I'll be interested to see how you go with your pine seeds though (and the others for that matter)- make sure you post about their progress.
:yes:


Happy to report back on how things progress. Others are crab apples, plums, hawthorn and tridents.
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Ryceman3 » July 23rd, 2018, 2:40 pm

This weekend I spent Saturday morning at the AABC Bonsai Exhibition in Preston, where I was able to draw inspiration from a multitude of mind blowing trees on display, what an awesome spectacle superbly put together! :tu:
I then dedicated most of Sunday to getting myself some extra place for the pine babies I am hopefully about to generate... another rack = twice the space! I'm looking forward to filling a lot of it with seedling trays in the near future. I also did an extension to my watering set up to (hopefully) make sure all remains as hydrated as it should.
IMG_2845.jpg

IMG_2847.jpg

After I got the whole thing together, I was putting the "floater" seeds I had planted out onto their new rack when I spotted this ...
IMG_2846.jpg

... SWEET! It's an Austrian Pine that's popped it's head out - :cool:
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby melbrackstone » July 23rd, 2018, 7:30 pm

That's a fine view your plants have. Well done on the quick little Austrian pine! Hope there are plenty of others to follow.
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Joe.sab » July 24th, 2018, 2:33 am

That’s really great competition I will be following this project, keep it up my friend :aussie:
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Ryceman3 » July 24th, 2018, 1:11 pm

melbrackstone wrote:That's a fine view your plants have. Well done on the quick little Austrian pine! Hope there are plenty of others to follow.

Hi Mel, the thing about views is that there best shared with others, so I also hope that little Austrian gets a few mates soon to check it out with! :yes:

Joe.sab wrote:That’s really great competition I will be following this project, keep it up my friend :aussie:

Thanks Joe, I'll keep updating as I do bits and pieces ... like these JBP seeds I took out of stratification this morning (in the fridge for 16 days) and planted. 96 seeds in all from 3 different batches
(Batch A, E & I).
I had grand plans of concocting my own AAA rated, no fail, gold star, guaranteed to produce amazing bonsai seed raising mix but the more I thought about it, the more I decided to heed the advice/comments of shibui in another thread :
1. Remember that these trees have been germinating for millions of years in ordinary soil in the forest and managing to survive.
2. When I worked at a production nursery we used vermiculite sprinkled over the seed trays after sowing ....

JBP-planting01.jpg

JBP-planting02.jpg


So, they got planted in a commercial seed raising mix with a top dressing of vermiculite. At the moment it is still pretty "winter" in Melbourne, so I have covered the trays with clear lids to maximise the warmth and minimise the wind (man it is WINDY!) ... ideally I think I should be planting in a few weeks from now, but let's see what happens.
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby melbrackstone » July 24th, 2018, 1:29 pm

I heard it was very windy, so putting those covers on is, imho, a good idea! Those flats dry out very quickly!

Good luck
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Ryceman3 » July 31st, 2018, 1:07 pm

Another week, another couple of batches of seed sown. Today I put in JBP (Batch B & F), which I had soaked for 36 hours or so but not stratified. Also sown were a few randoms I had left over, some JRP (Batch K) and some Scots (Batch L) and some Austrian (Batch N) seeds. All in all I have sown about 256 seeds so far - hoping in the next few weeks I have something more to show than trays of dirt! :fc:

Who wants to see some empty seedling trays ??? Here you go!
pine sowing.jpg


Maybe a couple more ??? Sure!
JBP-planting03.jpg

JBP-planting04.jpg


With any luck the next time I post here I'll have something a bit more exciting ...
:beer:
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Ryceman3 » August 13th, 2018, 12:19 pm

Today's update :
On the weekend I planted out a few more seeds, now I have 6 full trays going in total ... so just over 380 seeds... I only just added that up then - :shock: :?
I did : Batch J (Japanese Red Pine), Batch M, O and P (all Austrian Pine), I also planted out some spare seeds I had from previous batches just to fill in any extra cells I had in the trays.
I planted these ones a little deeper as was recommended to me but in essence, the same way as all the others.

The original "floaters" that I planted have produced 7 pines - I think that's about 30% success ... not bad for seeds I thought about throwing out. One of these 7 only appeared 3 or so days ago, so I guess it may even improve! I know 2 are Austrian Pines, I'm pretty sure 3 are Scots Pines ... the other 2 :?: :?: My labelling of these was pretty lax given I didn't rate their chances of growing.
They are looking like this :
Floaters - Aug01.jpg

Probably more exciting though is the emergence of the Austrian and Scot's pines I planted 2 weeks or so ago, they are rapidly developing... :tu2:
PNP and SCP_Aug01.jpg

And as for the JBP ... I am waiting patiently - or I was waiting patiently (and a little anxiously) until I found this in the original tray I planted on July 24th :
JBP_Aug01.jpg

Of all of them this was the moment I had been waiting for. Good things come to those who wait, hopefully a bit more waiting might get me a few more good things. I have just over 60 sprouted seeds so far, I'm pretty happy with that result before mid-August. Here's a shot of the 6 trays hanging out together, with their "floater" mates.
:beer:
all of them.jpg
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