THE PINE PROJECT

Forum for discussion of Pines, Junipers, Cedar etc as bonsai.

Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby terryb » August 13th, 2018, 2:16 pm

Congratulations! Seems like you are going to be very busy coping with seedlings.

Do you have your propagators in the sun? I can see there is a vent at the top of those little propagators but I imagine these would still get really hot inside.
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Ryceman3 » August 13th, 2018, 2:28 pm

terryb wrote:Congratulations! Seems like you are going to be very busy coping with seedlings.

Do you have your propagators in the sun? I can see there is a vent at the top of those little propagators but I imagine these would still get really hot inside.


:beer: terryb,
Yeah, I have them out for pretty much the whole day, then stack them away at night. I can't say there has been enough full sun/warmth in the days to overheat them, but I do leave the vents open and only close them at night. The thing they are great for at the moment is keeping the wind out, we have had a lot of really windy days here so the lids have meant I can keep them in the sun but protected from drying out by the wind. It's been a good way to kickstart seed germination a bit earlier than I think would have otherwise happened. When things begin to turn properly for Spring (and hopefully the winds die down), I doubt the lids will stay on during the day... cooked pines would not be a good outcome!
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby shibui » August 13th, 2018, 7:39 pm

What makes you say the propagators have kickstarted the seeds earlier than otherwise? The 'floaters' look just as big, possibly even better than the ones in the propagators and I assume they have been in the open?
In my experience pines germinate really early anyway, with or without heat or protection. They should also be fine with a bit of wind. Just think of the places these things grow naturally - they cope with wind, snow and ice, even the little seedlings.
Just be really careful with those propagators. Pines are known for not liking too much humidity and seedlings of all sorts are very prone to fungal infection 'damping off', especially when kept damp. Hopefully the UV will help deter any fungal spores trying to grow but if any show signs of wilting I would use a fungicide and allow them to dry out a bit to try to save the others.
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Ryceman3 » August 13th, 2018, 9:49 pm

shibui wrote:What makes you say the propagators have kickstarted the seeds earlier than otherwise? The 'floaters' look just as big, possibly even better than the ones in the propagators and I assume they have been in the open?
In my experience pines germinate really early anyway, with or without heat or protection. They should also be fine with a bit of wind. Just think of the places these things grow naturally - they cope with wind, snow and ice, even the little seedlings.
Just be really careful with those propagators. Pines are known for not liking too much humidity and seedlings of all sorts are very prone to fungal infection 'damping off', especially when kept damp. Hopefully the UV will help deter any fungal spores trying to grow but if any show signs of wilting I would use a fungicide and allow them to dry out a bit to try to save the others.


Hi shibui, the floaters got kicked out of the propogators yesterday after I ran out of space (I only have 6) so up until the weekend they had the same treatment as the other seeds. They are now on their own. I agree in nature seeds cope with a lot, but I’m sure my success rates would be lower without the propogators. It’s been more than just a bit of wind, never seen it so blowy - I doubt I could’ve kept the trays from drying out without the lids, as you know pots (trays) and the ground are not equal in terms of moisture retention. A pot will dry much quicker.
By the same token I water them as little as possible as I am aware of the pine aversion to humidity, I’ll be leaving the lids off when they develop a bit more (I was thinking about when the seed cases pop off, maybe a week longer?). Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated... damping off is the next thing on my list I have never encountered but am desperate to avoid!
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Ryceman3 » August 22nd, 2018, 11:45 am

I had watered my seedlings this morning and noticed this which I thought was pretty cool ...
3C81E9A1-8482-42B2-BD29-C59B24DC49C5.jpeg

a little bead of water caught in between the opening cotyledons, just thought it was worth a picture!
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Akhi » August 22nd, 2018, 1:54 pm

Remarkable


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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby dansai » August 22nd, 2018, 7:19 pm

Beautiful photo
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Boics » August 22nd, 2018, 7:21 pm

Epic shot!!
One of the fabulous things about growing bonsai is as you get old and decrepit your trees get old and beautiful
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby MJL » August 22nd, 2018, 8:50 pm

Ryceman3 wrote:I had watered my seedlings this morning and noticed this which I thought was pretty cool ...
3C81E9A1-8482-42B2-BD29-C59B24DC49C5.jpeg

a little bead of water caught in between the opening cotyledons, just thought it was worth a picture!


Ok - I think this is my favourite thread.

It just speaks to the 'addiction' us bonsai-nuts new and experience growers face.

I mean really... a 6 year pine project; it's just... well .... bonsai'ish.

I love it and then this photo Wow! - Worth a picture! It's worth a prize in itself I reckon.

Anyway Ryceman3 - thanks for starting this thread and I look forward to the progression. Thanks too for your pictures, I know I am restricted for room but somehow your rooftop makes me feel simultaneously jealous of the view and lucky for the small space of my courtyard.

Top stuff. Cheers, Mark
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Ryceman3 » August 23rd, 2018, 1:41 pm

Thanks for the props on the shot Akhi, dansai & Boics. I’m sure there is some scientific explanation which refers to surface tension and atmospheric pressure or whatever but I just took the photo because I also thought it was pretty kick ass!

MJL wrote:Ok - I think this is my favourite thread.

It just speaks to the 'addiction' us bonsai-nuts new and experience growers face.

I mean really... a 6 year pine project; it's just... well .... bonsai'ish.

I love it and then this photo Wow! - Worth a picture! It's worth a prize in itself I reckon.

Anyway Ryceman3 - thanks for starting this thread and I look forward to the progression. Thanks too for your pictures, I know I am restricted for room but somehow your rooftop makes me feel simultaneously jealous of the view and lucky for the small space of my courtyard.

Top stuff. Cheers, Mark


Hi Mark, thanks for your compliments and encouraging comments, I’m glad you’re enjoying the thread and I hope to continue adding some good content over the next 6 years! I have no idea what to do with my rooftop space if all these pines kick on - I’ll cross that bridge if I get to it.
I was explaining my participation in the contest to a non-bonsai mate... who just kinda looked at me like :shock: ,
so then I went on to say 6 years is nothing really and that to grow a pine in that time from seed is sort of like the bonsai equivalent of Formula One, then his face kinda changed to :o , followed by :?
Needless to say, I don’t talk about it much with him anymore! I think it takes a bonsai-person to get it totally, although I do have other friends who appreciate the patience and commitment, but they also admit they would never be able to do it. Maybe the difference between them and me is that I’m in denial! We’ll see, there’s a long way to go!
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby MJL » August 23rd, 2018, 7:13 pm

:clap: :lol:

Funny - your reply made me laugh. And yes, I understand. Many of my friends just tilt their head and remain politely silent.
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby JulzD » August 23rd, 2018, 9:57 pm

My wife doesn't get it [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND TIGHTLY-CLOSED EYES][FLUSHED FACE].
Focus. Discipline. Success.
Know yourself and all else is easy.
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby MJL » August 26th, 2018, 7:50 am

JulzD wrote:My wife doesn't get it

Julz.... if it helps, I think my wonderful wife has gone through various phases .... from huh? ... to what?... to head shaking ... to I don’t get it! ... to resigned patience ... to drum roll please....
‘Hey Mark - we don’t have any flowers in the house, why don’t you display a Bonsai?’ ....

Hang on a minute ....

Maybe acceptance is coming as I get a little more skilled... or she is just humouring me.

Anyway - this NZ christmas tree came in for a dinner party. Small steps.

IMG_4888.JPG





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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby Ryceman3 » September 7th, 2018, 1:33 pm

Just an update on these seeds of mine. I've had some success with all of the 4 types of pines I planted, so I'm pretty happy with how things are going.
IMG_2971.jpg

IMG_2972.jpg

I had a bit of spare time this morning so I decided to count up the seedlings I have succesfully propagated.
Here's what I got :
Japanese Black Pine : 51seedlings from 184 seeds (approx 27.5% success rate)
Japanese Red Pine : 9 seedlings from 48 seeds (approx 19% success rate)
Austrian Pine : 64 seedlings from 79 seeds (approx 81% success rate)
Scots Pine : 71 seedlings from 71 seeds (100% success rate! :yes: )
I am kind of thinking these rates still have potential to improve as the weather starts to warm up here. My thoughts are that maybe the reason the JBP and JRP rates aren't higher is they are naturally from warmer climates than the Austrian and Scots and therefore require warmer weather to kick start germination ... maybe? Thoughts? I have one batch each of JBP and JRP that haven't yet sprouted anything (32 seeds in each batch), but I'll be patient and see what pops up. I will most likely prepare a few more JBP seeds and see if they come up a bit quicker than these early batches, this might help to answer my question. As for the Austrian Pines, they too would have been closer to 100% but for a small batch of 12 that just produced 1 seedling. In terms of germination time I noticed that Austrians were generally the quickest to come up, followed by Scots, then JRP and finally JBP ... which I think also supports my theory about colder climate pines.
The covers are now off all these trays, the weather is warming up and I don't want to cook them, and as my grandma would say - the fresh air will do them good.
:beer:
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Re: THE PINE PROJECT

Postby melbrackstone » September 7th, 2018, 1:53 pm

That's nearly 200 seedlings.. !!!
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