Juniper To Be or Not To Be!

pureheart · Post by **pureheart** » June 7th, 2019, 8:43 pm

Hi Friends!

Okay I need your brains and opinions on this lovely tree.
First of all do you know what kind of Juniper this is? I'm sure they told me before but i forgot

Now I have to admit I can't make myself love this tree but i really want to... I really don't like how this was style and the double S trunk really makes me

...

I really want to change the tree and I've been debating if should just cut the whole top and leave only the first branch and create a cascase style or somehow fix the trunk removing the S and jin the lower branches and keep only the top....

I really need your opinion on this one... I almost did the cut last night but then I stopped and I thought I better get another opinion first!!!

As always if you don't know what are the possibilities is hard to make a decision...
Any comments is super welcome!!!

MJL · Post by **MJL** » June 7th, 2019, 9:37 pm

Hey Pureheart,
Gotta love a bonsai on the dining table.

Before knocking the top off - why not try to get some more aggressive bends or at least compress the tree whole lot. I reckon you could compress by at least 50% in height and in the process making the ‘s’ less conspicuous.

And/or

At the same time - after compressing, or not, potentially tilting the whole lot to become a semi-cascade; with the current lowest beach becoming the new top of the cascading tree.

Regardless of design, I reckon try something before cutting - what do have to lose? Have a crack if you’re bored or uninspired by the current tree.

Here’s some crap drawings:

First - compress

IMG_0823.jpg

And/or

IMG_0824.jpg

Bonsai teaches me patience.
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shibui · Post by **shibui** » June 7th, 2019, 10:17 pm

looks like Juniper procumbens (possibly J. p nana) or maybe Juniper squamata.

Cascade as a last resort. Looks easy but many have tried with mediocre or worse results.
There are so many options but hard to decide which is better without seeing the entire tree to judge real angles, 3D movement and where branches start and end.
have you considered a sparse, elongated juniper bonsai? Treeman posted one recently: viewtopic.php?f=131&t=27042 and here's another under development from pearcy with a similar style - viewtopic.php?f=131&t=27048
I think the reduced branching seems to suit those long, taperless trunks.

For a fuller tree I think reducing the height will help the trunk look stronger. It will also take away some of that lazy S curve. Maybe find a branch that you can become a new leader. Even if the branch is coming out at an awkward angle, unexpected bends and random twists are a feature of wild junipers because of the tough conditions they survive in and can still look good in bonsai. I'd expect most of those branches could still be bent, especially after wrapping to minimise breakage. Last resort would be to split the wood to allow it to bend better. That seems to work well with junipers.
As I said, it is very difficult to judge the depth and direction but maybe something like this would work?

Juniper 1.JPG

Black shows live wood. Red indicates dead wood - jin and shari (I forgot to do any jin at the top of the tree

) and blue could be areas of foliage. you'll need to consider the real tree to see whether any or all of that is even possible or whether some changes might make it reality.

I can't really see a good juniper bonsai using that lowest long branch. Try to unsee it while contemplating any other options. Hanging branches do look good on junipers and can be used to fill spaces where lower branches are missing.

pureheart · Post by **pureheart** » June 7th, 2019, 11:44 pm

Thank you all! Shibui as always you opened my eyes I looove mike’s tree and that’s what I’m going to try!!!! Stay tuned!

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pureheart · Post by **pureheart** » June 10th, 2019, 7:40 pm

Ok I did!
What do you think?
I’m still unhappy with the top... should I remove the top?

IMG_0763.jpg

IMG_0762.jpg

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shibui · Post by **shibui** » June 10th, 2019, 8:24 pm

That old trunk is far too thick for the apex of the tree. It also heads off to the rear which is not so good for flow.
I'm 1 for remove but maybe just jin for now which will be in keeping with the small, lower jins. If possible bend it upward as much as possible soon after stripping while the wood is still green. I think upward movement will be better than current horizontal.
If it doesn't look good as a jin it can always be removed completely later.

pureheart · Post by **pureheart** » June 10th, 2019, 10:49 pm

Thanks yes makes sense I wasn’t happy either! I will work on it !

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pureheart · Post by **pureheart** » June 16th, 2019, 8:21 pm

Ok I worked on it again today… almost snapped a branch but it was worth it!
Now I’m not sure which one should be the front and not entirely happy with the second branch from the top as it is too thick compared to the lower branches but I guess if I let the lower branches grow freely and trim only the top I should be able to address that? Correct?
Let me know what you think and which one is your preferred front???

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pureheart · Post by **pureheart** » June 17th, 2019, 10:58 pm

No one? Shibui?

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MJL · Post by **MJL** » June 18th, 2019, 8:01 am

Hey Pureheart, I’ll offer something with a few caveats:
-I am at best a bonsai apprentice but then with the exception of a few sages, perhaps a lot of us are.
-these Juni’s are both easy and hard; easy in that they are pliable, resilient and bend to our will but patently difficult to gain an interesting and tapering trunk - I reckon anyway.
-due to current tech issues, I can’t see all the photos

So ... this tree is progressing and it’s looks more interesting than it did. Well done on having a crack - it’s the only way to learn. On this thread - you can see Pearcy’s tree and there is innate interest in the trunk line. Where’s as here we are managing a non-tapering s-bend. So hmmm.....

While in many cases it is good to expose the trunk line, here, I think it might be good to create more mystery around it; hiding it a little.
I think this might be an interesting viewing angle and you’d twist the top third of the tree and compress to the left so that the apex sits off the trunk line ... this diagram might help explain my confusing language.

IMG_0876.jpg

You’d need some relatively strong wire but why not continue to play?

Anyway, thanks for helping me pass time if the train to work. I’m sure others may have alternate views too.

Bonsai teaches me patience.
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pureheart · Post by **pureheart** » July 3rd, 2019, 10:29 pm

MJL wrote:Hey Pureheart, I’ll offer something with a few caveats:
-I am at best a bonsai apprentice but then with the exception of a few sages, perhaps a lot of us are.
-these Juni’s are both easy and hard; easy in that they are pliable, resilient and bend to our will but patently difficult to gain an interesting and tapering trunk - I reckon anyway.
-due to current tech issues, I can’t see all the photos

So ... this tree is progressing and it’s looks more interesting than it did. Well done on having a crack - it’s the only way to learn. On this thread - you can see Pearcy’s tree and there is innate interest in the trunk line. Where’s as here we are managing a non-tapering s-bend. So hmmm.....

While in many cases it is good to expose the trunk line, here, I think it might be good to create more mystery around it; hiding it a little.
I think this might be an interesting viewing angle and you’d twist the top third of the tree and compress to the left so that the apex sits off the trunk line ... this diagram might help explain my confusing language.
IMG_0876.jpg
You’d need some relatively strong wire but why not continue to play?

Anyway, thanks for helping me pass time if the train to work. I’m sure others may have alternate views too.

Bonsai teaches me patience.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for taking the time to reply! I hadn’t the time to read properly or look at the tree but will read soon!

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pureheart · Post by **pureheart** » September 5th, 2020, 8:52 pm

Today I almost drop the plant in the bin and then I was like let’s try one final option.....
This is the result

What do you think? Worth saving?

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MJL · Post by **MJL** » September 6th, 2020, 5:52 am

pureheart wrote:Today I almost drop the plant in the bin and then I was like let’s try one final option.....
This is the result

What do you think? Worth saving?

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I think it is way, way better for its sparser nature. It’s on top of the bin now and deserves to be kept away from the inside of that dark place.

I reckon you’re doing a good job of improving this tree
- keep going!

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one_bonsai · Post by **one_bonsai** » September 6th, 2020, 9:38 am

There's not much foliage left. Don't throw it out. You could make a decent literati out of it.

Keep Calm and Ramify · September 6th, 2020, 11:03 am

Do you think you will ever be happy with this? - It seems the trunk line was a major issue from the start. Chalk it up as experience gained.

I'm gonna be honest - The next stage in this trees development may be the opening of the bin's lid?

AusBonsai