How to create ramification cedar of Lebanon

[Mickeyjaytee]

Hi guys and gals!

So I have had a Himalayan cedar for quite sometime and just recently got my hands onto a cedar of Lebanon. I’m just wondering if anyone knows how to promote ramification?

I was wondering do they work like pines in that having candles, you can cut them back and hope for multiple candles from the cutoff point next growing season?

How can I promote this while the tree is growing? How do cedars grow and how can I make it dense up?

I’m finding it quite hard to find information on this subject. The cedar of Lebanon is a little small (pre-bonsai), and would like to get it right!

Any help would be so greatly appreciated!

[shibui]

A little like pines but I haven't seen clusters of new buds from the base of pinched shoots. I usually just get a few new shoots after trimming new shoots on deodar which are traditionally trimmed by pulling out the centre of very soft new shoots before they harden.
Atalantica and libani don't seem to make the same long new shoots so I've just been letting branches grow then cut back to a side bud. That usually stimulates a couple of the shorter side shoots to grow which improves ramification - slowly.
Don't take on atlantica or libani if you are in a hurry for bonsai.

If anyone knows any other ways I'd be happy to hear more too.

[Mickeyjaytee]

Thanks for the reply Shibui, I always appreciate your input. Definitely a hard tree to find much information on. I’ll try what you said in regards to pruning.

My Himalayan Cedar is getting quite big and is in a rather large pot. It wasn’t supposed to be for bonsai (I bought it many years ago before getting into it) and I was wondering how the himalayans go with root pruning? From what little information I can find, cedars do not like much root pruning at all. Is this true for Himalayan? If so it may be too late.

The threads I found were generally American focussed on the Atlantic Cedar so, I’m unsure if this applies to the Himalayan.

Love the colour of the Lebanese Cedar I bought and am patient enough! Bonsai is for life so, I shall enjoy many years watching and developing the tree.

Thanks again!

[KIRKY]

Mickyjaytee,
Lots of info if you look for Cedrus deodara and Himalayan Cedar you’ll find all you need to help you.
Cheers
Kirky

[treeman]

Mickeyjaytee


My Himalayan Cedar is getting quite big and is in a rather large pot. It wasn’t supposed to be for bonsai (I bought it many years ago before getting into it) and I was wondering how the himalayans go with root pruning? From what little information I can find, cedars do not like much root pruning at all. Is this true for Himalayan? If so it may be too late.

The best way to root prune the cedars is to start when they are just seedlings and to do it regularly until they are quite advanced. This ensures a nice ramification in the roots and makes things easier later on. The second best way is to regularly prune the outside on the root ball on a more mature specimen but it is quite difficult to develop much of a nebari from that stage. They don't like having a great deal of roots removed at any one time and need 2 - 3 years between insults. Start by cutting back the very long roots which have spiraled around the root ball by 75%. Try to select the future surface roots - those which are more or less coming from the same level on the trunk and prune these quite short ( so they don't have curves in them but no shorter than about 50mm )
Trim back all other roots to an outward facing beard and pot up. Repeat in 2 years time and every 3-4 years after they are 10 years old or so but make sure they don't get to the stage where there are so many roots you cannot see the mix because you will damage the tree with the necessary sever root cut. You will slowly build up a balanced root system. Don't over pot! They do better a little cramped.

The threads I found were generally American focussed on the Atlantic Cedar so, I’m unsure if this applies to the Himalayan.

Basically treat them the same. Cedars have 2 kinds of stems. The ones which elongate are usually confined to the tips of the branches. The ones further back are mainly spurs which put out a new set of leaves each year but do not elongate. On a young tree, cut back to shoot further back on the branch not a spur. Wire this new leader into position if needed. On older trees which you want to ramify ( or if you no longer need a shoot to extend much) pinch back the tender shoots as mentioned above. If the tree is vigorous, it may put out new shoots in the same season. If it an aged specimen it will most likely form buds at the pinch site which will grow out the following year.

[Mickeyjaytee]

Thanks for both of the replies, it’s greatly appreciated. I’ll start on the Himalayan. It should be about 3-4 years old I think. It is in a large pot. I’ll double check which season I should do it.

In regards to finding info, the Himalayan seems ok, it’s the cedar of Lebanon I’m unsure of. There’s a lot of information on general care but, I can’t find specifics on pruning, promoting ramification etc etc. It’s only smallish and a prebonsai. Has some density already. Is the cedar of Lebanon and elongating species also?

Thanks again everyone!

[treeman]

Is the cedar of Lebanon and elongating species also?

If it wasn't it wouldn't grow.

[Mickeyjaytee]

Is the cedar of Lebanon and elongating species also?

If it wasn't it wouldn't grow.

Hahaha sorry treeman, I absolutely misread your post