Hi,
I am new to this site and was hoping for some help / advice on a Japanese Red Pine (dwarf) that I have just bought. This is my first venture into the Japanese pine journey, I have also purchased a JBP
After reading the advice on this site and others when it comes to Japanese pines I am a bit confused as to how I should deal with the candles on this particular plant. It has many candles and I am wondering when I decandle this summer should I be removing all candles or is this plant at the stage where I am selecting candles that will remain ?
I would like the plant to grow a little bigger in height but I am mainly concerned with branch development?
Hope my question isn’t to vague
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I don’t know much about JRP, however be really conscious of taper in the main trunk you choose. Pines grow in clumps (4 usually) and your main trunk might end up looking like an hourglsss.
Oli
Young, dumb and excited to contribute to this wonderful forum and the wider bonsai community.
Hi Cameron.
First, Much of what we do is closely related to where we are. Timing differs from one district to another. To get options suited to your conditions you should add a general location to your profile so we know what climate to allow for.
How sure are you that the tree pictured is a Red pine? Growth doesn't look much like the red pines I grow.
Your tree is still quite young. Developing pines is quite complex. We need to allow for the fact that pines do not reliably bud from bare wood while allowing growth that will add trunk thickness and extra height.
Every grower will have different goals and milestones in mind but I would not be starting to decandle or even worry about branching with a tree at this stage of development. Many good bonsai are not built using all the branches and trunk the tree starts with. Many of us use sacrifice branching and large cutbacks to develop both trunks and branches. Development advice on most pines depends whether the grower is willing to look at longer term solutions for a better result or shorter term goals for a less impressive tree.
Both photos supplied are taken from above which makes it harder to see the lower trunk and where branches begin and end. Makes it much easier for us to see what's there if the photos are from trunk level and with a plain background.
Thanks so much for your reply
I’m based in Sydney (Newtown)
Tree was sold as a ‘Japanese Red pine osmaston‘ from Bonsai South Nursery
I’ll upload a photo from angle you have suggested tonight but you have given me a lot to think about, I am understanding what you have said and think to just let it grow at this point in time is the best solution
Again thanks for your advice
Cameron
I see this is a named cultivar of red pine which may explain why it looks different from the usual species. Also note that it is grafted as is usual when propagating pine cultivars. Many bonsai growers don't like grafted trees as there can be visual differences between the stock and scion as the bark matures. Also sometimes there's a difference in growth above and below the graft union which can result in unsightly bulges.
The new photos give a better idea of the trunk and branching. The clusters of branches are typical of pines but usually lead to local thickening which produces what bonsai growers refer to as inverse taper. We generally try to reduce clusters of branches to just 2 at any spot we want to keep in future. Looking at the lower branches I see at least 2, maybe 4 branches as well as the main trunk. That area already has a slight bulge so my first priority would be to remove one or more of those branches to slow that swelling. Which to keep and which to remove will depend on the roots and trunk below so before making the decision you should excavate the soil around the trunk to see whether the thick surface roots are evenly spread around the tunk or are higher on one side or the other.
Will do some excavating of the soil and investigate
If the roots are evenly spread I’m guessing it’s more personal choice as to which branches I would remove ?
If as you say they are higher on one side would it be better to keep branches on the high root side or the opposing side ?
Is now an ok time to remove branches or should I wait for a certain season / time ?
Thanks again for your advice greatly appreciated
Cameron
I have just been reading the thread on Black Pines - Seasonal guide and your comments particular your first me n the thread.
Is it safe to take a similar approach with this species of red pine as with Black pines ?
Thanks
Cameron
Both black and red pines grow as 'dual flush' species so development and pruning are similar. Red pines are a little less vigorous so I prune them a few weeks before the black pines.
Red pines also have a rep for being more brittle but I have not noticed that with the few I have worked with.
I don't have this cultivar so can't offer any clues as to whether it might be stronger, weaker, hardier than the species.
My first piece of advice would be to scrape back to very soil gently away the trunk down to the level where the roots spread out to see how they look. Take some photos, then put the spoil back to keep the roots protected and keep the fine roots growing.
A few questions:
What is your timeframe? Are you wanting to style it now or are you willing to do some cuts and let it grow for a few years?
Is the slight bulge just above the ground level a graft junction?
Are you wanting a straight tall tree? or one with lots of bends and movement?
Thanks for the reply
Will follow your advice on the roots and get some photos
After inspecting the tree closet following Shibui post im pretty sure its grafted so was thinking of some slight bending to the main trunk above the graft point but nothing to drastic
I got this tree and a JBP more as learning tools so im in no great rush to style now but also not looking for a super long project
Thanks for the video links will check them out
Thanks again
Thought I could see a graft in the initial pictures and the new photos confirm it is grafted. That's not always a problem. It will depend what stock the grower has used and what sort of bark the 2 different parts end up with. There appears to be a little difference so the stock may be JBP but time will tell.
As also expected with mass produced stock the roots are a tangled mess with roots circling and crossing. How much you care about that is up to you. In time the roots should fuse into a woody mass anyway so may not matter too much given some time and some growth. It may be possible to untangle some of the outer roots at next repot if you are brave enough to do it and work carefully and really want a good looking radial root system.
The real reason for checking roots is to see:
a. how deep they are and therefore how long the trunk really is
b. whether the existing trunk can be tilted one way or the other to leave a horizontal root system.
Wiring the trunk above the graft may give some useful bends but I find beds created by pruning much more realistic. Again you may have other ideas but happy for you to give it a go and see what you can do. Wiring and bending also does nothing about trunk taper which is an important aspect of any bonsai trunks and branches.
It is much more common to develop pines through grow and prune cycles. From the pictures I would consider removing the main trunk above the first branches and use the side branches on one side as the first branch while the one on the other side becomes the next section of the trunk. Grow and prune like this not only gives new bends but also taper in the developing trunk. I understand that that is a big step for a relatively new grower and may seem like throwing away half of the purchase price of the tree. Most of us start out feeling like that.
Thanks again, your posts are helping me to understand a lot of what I have read on this forum and in books etc with a practical example.
If I was to remove the main trunk section, which I’m open to doing, would I leave all four branches or reduce to two, I think by your post you are saying just leave two, one for new trunk section one for a branch and lthen leave all the existing candles on these two sections ?
If I was to go down this path how long would you think I would need to be developing this tree before it started to become a more formed bonsai ? I understand this question is a bit open but just a rough idea ?
