Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

[Jow]

Hi all...

Just thought i'd keep this thread moving along.

I just recieved an email from an American grower that i am sure you will all know of. He gave me some advice as he grows ponderosa pines and Monterey pines and does so very well.

I have aske his permision to post his email here but am still awaiting on his reply. He outlines an interesting care regime.

Stay tuned.

[Jow]

Ok, so i got the ok to post the following information.

I had received some information that some growers in the USA were classing the Monterey pine in its own 3 needle group along with Ponderosa pines. So, i started looking for information on Ponderosa care to see if the techniques would cross over.

I was looking for ponderosa information when i came across Ryan Neil's website. (Have a look if you haven’t already). After seeing the amazing work he is doing on ponderosa's i decided to send him an email seeing if he was willing to share his techniques. He was. An excerpt is below.

To answer your question about ponderosas, I do a few things that seem to help. The main thing is to focus on increasing the number of needles on the tree. With ponderosas, much like white pine, they are only geared up to produce one flush of growth/year. As a result cutting buds or needles is not an option and so the energy of the tree must be distributed amongst a large number of needles in order to dilute the strength put into any single needle. On very old Monterey Pine the same is true. This means not plucking any old needles until the fall and always feeding and fertilizing well during the development stage so as to increase bud and needle count. On most trees I have years that are sacrificial of needle size in order to get budding and density, after which I am able to control needle length much easier. I fertilize heavy during these sacrifice years and care little about needle length. However, once a reasonable amount of needles are present, I will not fertilize my ponderosas until September and only give them small amounts in the fall so as to not overly increase their vigour. Again, this applies to trees that have the bud and needle density I'm after.

I was really impressed with Ryan's generosity and eagerness to share information. He has already demonstrated that he has a lot to give to the bonsai community and i am sure he will help to raise the standard of western bonsai further.

He did mention that he would at some stage like to come out to Australia so fingers crossed for the future.

What do people think about using his ponderosa techniques on Radiatas?

[Scott Roxburgh]

Great to get a bit of info from someone as knowledgable and humble as Ryan.

So treating them much like a white pine may be the way to go, with on and off years. It seems that good fertilising is a common theme to promote budding on all pine species, with a focus on the development stage being key, increasing budding/needle density on older trees sounds like a bit of an issue too?

We might have to see if we can get Ryan out here for a few Ausbonsai workshops up and down the eastern seaboard? If we get enough willing participants the airfare cost to each participant would be minimal. Im sure a number of clubs/nurseries would jump on board too.

[craigw60]

The concept of creating more needles is a very good one and logical. Its a bit like deciduous trees I guess where more twigs mean smaller leaves. I don't know about the one flush of growth per year, that must be a climatic difference because mine tend to be doing something all year round.
Of course I full agree with the autumn pruning regime and have been meaning to get stuck into mine any day, will post some before and after pics once the job is done, its quite a major operation because I remove old wire and re-wire the twigs at the same time.
Craigw

[Jow]

Craig,

Ryan was talking predominently talking about Ponderosa although he said he would treat Monterey pine in a similar way. So that may explain why he talked of only one flush of growth. That being said i tend to only get the one strong flush of growth in my old radiata. I guess we will see how that changes after re-potting this winter.

I read on another forum that Boon Manakitivipart is going to try treating his radiata like a black pine this season in regards to candle pruning. It will be interesting to see his results.

Joe.

[craigw60]

Indeed it will be, QV gave a talk on pines at Yarra valley last year and I think he is treating his radiata and black pine the same.
I think the radiata as with most pines do better very pot bound, it makes it easier to keep them nice and dry, can't remember the last time I potted mine.
Craigw

[Andrew Legg]

Hi All,

Young Radiatas must be bomb-proof! I pulled one out of the ground in 2009 and it is going strong. When I say pulled, I mean pulled. No digging, no moving rocks, just one good long pull Bare rooted it completely. Took some bog roll and wet it around the roots until I got home. Tossed it in a pot with some standard potting soil and it has never looked back. I call it my Chuck Norris tree bacause it seems to be indestructible! Here's a pick of it just long enough after it was pulled out to allow a bit of good old fashioned undergrowth!

Radiata Oct 2009.jpg

I'll post a new photo of it soon when I get my camera out, but needless to say, it is going well. I am quite excited as I have just found a radiata that must be about 5 to ten years old (it has a base about 5 to 7 centimeters thick) growing in a local reserve. Its a weed right so gonna pull (this will be a prepared dig though) that one out in late winter as well. I'll drop some pics of it too closer to the time. Its got great movement low down!

Great thread!

[Josh7]

There are so many of 'pests' around here due to forrestry for Paper Mills.
If you want Yamadori, just quietly wander into a plantation or drive up any road and you will see all sizes everywhere!
There are some awesome P. radiata's as bonsai specimens around and they should be treated as serious bonsai subjects, or you can simply use them as training for the more popular Pinus species.

[scarferr]

Does any one know how many years it takes for the bark on a pinus radiata to crack and become deeply ridged?

[kcpoole]

the 2 I collected last year, both had Cracked bark and I could only count about4 rings I think
Ken

[SteveT]

Does any one know how many years it takes for the bark on a pinus radiata to crack and become deeply ridged?

Great question. I'm interested to know other's experiences too.

[SteveT]

Here's the tree I pruned a short while ago. It responded well to pruning and has now been wired.

This is a good time of wire to wire Radiata Pine I think.

Is anyone else doing anything with their Radiatas at the moment?




Steve

[craigw60]

Thats great work Steve, wiring out the twigs like you have done not only improves the look of the tree but it also allows light into the twigs and encourages more budding. I am doing the same work on mine at this time of year and will put up a pic once I have them wired, its a bit of a long slow job.
Craigw

[John Henry]

After 2hr thinning out 4hr wiring this Radiater was well over due for a re work

[John Henry]

Two more Radiatas i have had enough of wiring this weekend