black pines

Forum for discussion of Pines, Junipers, Cedar etc as bonsai.
Neli
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Re: black pines

Post by Neli »

Lovely work Tien. You have the done the pines justice.
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Re: black pines

Post by bonsaisensation »

thanks Steven and Neli
i thought i'd share a bit more of the detail work that went into the styling.
IMG_0316.JPG
IMG_0329.JPG
the under cut method works fine for me, have yet to lose a branch, obviously sealed the cut the cut paste.
IMG_0327.JPG
IMG_0328.JPG
IMG_0331.JPG
IMG_0332.JPG
this is in fact quite simple, use right gauge wire and plan which direction to wrap the wire and twist the branchlets so that every branchlets come off the primary branch somewhat horizontally with the needles facing upward. :2c:

regards

Tien
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Re: black pines

Post by Neli »

Tien,
Thank you. Are your black pines pushing candles now? Mine are and not too sure if it is the time.
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Re: black pines

Post by bonsaisensation »

Neli wrote:Tien,
Thank you. Are your black pines pushing candles now? Mine are and not too sure if it is the time.
hi Neli
most of my other black pines are pushing the second flushof candles now, not this one. as you can probably see, the colour is slightly yellowish and the growth is not as strong as my other healthier black pines. i would only cut the existing first flush of growth off this year when the tree is strong and healthy.
as far as if it is the right time, for me here in melbourne, it's been a cool summer. so from what i can see here at the nursery, the overall growth of trees are a bit slower. i am looking for cues to make the cut(needles darken, becomes sharp, and are hard to pull off). once i can see these in a healthy black pine, then cut away and also thin out the older needles. i did a few medium size black pines today and i would expect to see some new growth within the next couple of weeks.
having said all these, i am no expert in black pines and i don't know what climate you have. so instead of remembering what month or season to do things, i prefer to read the signs of the tree. :2c:

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Re: black pines

Post by Neli »

Tien, my trees came from Japan in October, from autumn there to spring here. So I wanted to know if it is normal for black pines to start the first flush of buds now, or they are confused. This is what I mean:
Image
Image
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Re: black pines

Post by Scott Roxburgh »

I'd let them grow this season. Let them get adjusted to your environment. I'd imagine that it would be a lot different to the humidity in Japan.

They may not die, but if you've gone to the trouble of importing them, I'm guessing that you don't want to lose them?

Decandle next year, always put the tree's health first IMO.
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Re: black pines

Post by Neli »

Thanks, I shall do that. Just wanted to know which is the normal time when pines bud at your place.
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Re: black pines

Post by bonsaisensation »

hi Neli
i think your pines have finished their second flush of growth in Japan and have started a third flush of growth in your climate. they are not confused, they are simply responding to the extra warm weather. so it's the right time for black pine to produce second flush here in melbourne, and in your case, third flush.
i would just let the new growth grow, not cutting them off, thin out the older growth slightly as from the first photo, it looked a bit messy. and by spring time(august) the trees should have adjusted to your climate.

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Re: black pines

Post by Neli »

Hi Tien,
thanks a lot. They are thinned in sept in Japan...I did it myself at school, and were waiting for spring there to bud. I just did not wire them because with wire the branches break in a suitcase. They are very ramified, and not wired, and that is why they look messy. ALSO i NEED TO DO METSUMI ON THEM.I still have one to thin a bit though. I did not want to mess with them much till they are acclimatized.
Your advise has been helpful. I have done all the things needed to do to a JBP in Japan, where I was apprentice, but they are behaving out of season now...so I need to adjust everything to that for now, until they settle down.
Image
Image
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Re: black pines

Post by bonsaisensation »

hi Neli
when i said "messy", i didn't mean it was something you didn't do or didn't know how to do. i was fully aware of your apprenticeship in Japen few months ago, so i'd assumed that you'd have learnt more about bonsai in few weeks than i would in a few years. but i was also fully aware that there are other people viewing the post that it might be of some benefit to share what i'd do to a tree in its present condition. and as a matter of fact, i often allow my trees to get "messy" before i work on them again. i find that trees that have been left to do what i'd call "its thing", often respond better to styling because it's been left to grow to build up its vigour and strength. so when it's been styled, the existing vigour help it recover and back bud better. so "Messy" is good, well, only when one understands the reason and purpose of it. :tu: :2c:

another thing i thought was important as far as japanese black pine culture is concerned, was having the right climate as their native habitat in southern Japan. i have seen world class Japanese black pines and white pines been imported to Taiwan where some parts of it only get a hand full of cold winter days. so slowly but surely, those tree's health and vigour deteriorate over few years and eventually gone to Heaven :palm:. having a proper winter season where the trees can rest, especially JBP, is often overlooked :imo:

kind regard

Tien
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Re: black pines

Post by Neli »

Hi Tien,
Thanks! I know about the resting period needed. Not too sure if they will manage here but I did lots of research on it. My climate is not too different from the one at Shikoku island as far as the lows are concerned. Their average lows are 7C, maybe for longer period but I get lows of even 6C. White pine is the one that I should have even not think about but unfortunately I could not suppress my desire. So I am going the freezer way, or at least I shall try to.
I just love them so much. I brought so many junipers from there and pines...
I like to ask for advise all the time...from people with more experience than me. I have studied a lot and was very serious about it, but experience is best. I know all the theory and have done lots of practicals...but trees still surprise me. I have been in the nursery business for many years also.
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Re: black pines

Post by bonsaisensation »

an update on the bunjin black pine
DSCN0449a.jpg
DSCN0451a.jpg

the long hanging branch had been jinned as it was adding too much volumn and weight to the foliage. the rest of the branches have all been cut back to better back buds to form a more compact branch structure. it doesn't show all that well in the photo behind all the needles, but the short left branch is my favourite branch having good movement and short internodes.



regards
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Re: black pines

Post by treeman »

bonsaisensation wrote:
IMG_0315.JPG
I love the first 2 branches here Tien. Very nice. I'm not a fan of black pines where you cannot see into (and even through)the tree. This one looks like it will be very graceful.
Nice work.

I don't know why the pic didn't come out but you know which one I mean?
Last edited by treeman on April 28th, 2015, 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mike
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Re: black pines

Post by bonsaisensation »

hi Michael,
do you mean the lowest two branches?
i have since dropped the tips of the second left branch as it appeared too horizontal in the photo.
the needle are long at the moment, i will decandle in December later this year to shorten the needle length. when that happens, the branch structures can be then be appreciated.
bonsaisensation wrote: it doesn't show all that well in the photo behind all the needles, but the short left branch is my favourite branch having good movement and short internodes. regards
did i just typed left? :lost: i meant the short RIGHT branch.
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Re: black pines

Post by treeman »

bonsaisensation wrote:
do you mean the lowest two branches?
Yes. Can you post a good pic of this tree as it is now?
Mike
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