Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

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SueBee
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Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

Post by SueBee »

I have several cherry seedlings come up in my garden. One has a twin trunk and is now about 75cm high. How should I treat it from now in hopes of a Bonsai eventually?
What pruning should I give it? Summer Prune or wait until next Winter? It is in the middle of the vegie garden so no problem to leave it a year or so longer.
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Sue
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Re: Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

Post by alpineart »

HI SueBee , I have numerous cherries here that range from shohin starters to larger stock tree's . They all get treated the same . If the trunk is thick enough regular trimming during the growing season to improve movement and ramification . Wiring can be done but watch for thickening as it is quite rapid especially if a leader is allowed to grow .

The root mass is capable of becoming pot bound very quickly even if kept trimmed , spading in grow beds can be done during the grow season .

I have several Black cherries with 50mm trunks 400mm high that were dug 4 months ago , while still having soil attached they have never been planted are are quite happy growing 900mm shoots/branches this season . I trimmed them 2 days ago back to 2 shoots/leaves , I will get around to putting them into pots one day .

Cheers Alpineart
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Re: Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

Post by SueBee »

Thank you Alpineart, you give me hope. I was wondering if I could twist the two trunks together at this whippy stage then let them grow together or should I just hope for an interesting trunk later?.Do you Summer Prune as well as when dormant?
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Re: Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

Post by alpineart »

Hi SueBee , you could twist them together for a single trunk or wire individually and leave the wire to bite right in , this creates a very unique trunk but you will have 2 wired trunks not 1 fused trunk . If you wire try going in the opposite direction with 1 or wire at different angles so the trunks are marginally different .

I prune everthing that is big enough all year round not just cherries , I'm constantly plucking needles , pinching tips , pulling leaves , or hacking back hard , its never ending here .

Cheers. Alpine
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Re: Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

Post by shibui »

It is actually much better to prune cherry and apricot in summer when it is growing. They are particularly susceptible to gummosis infection when pruned while it is dormant.

Twisting together can sometimes give a good trunk but results are unpredictable so don't expect a winner every time. In my experience more duds than winners with that technique.
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Re: Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

Post by SueBee »

I did a little excavation around the roots just to see what was there and find that this may not be a seedling but a sucker that has emerged some 90cm+ from the tree. There is a main sideways root quite close to the surface going towards the mother cherry tree. Will this still be a possibility if I use a shovel to spade around it? Guess I can only try...there are three trunks not two, as one was hiding in the lemon balm bush...so if it survives I may have the beginnings of a raft maybe?
Now I look with different eyes I see so many young trees as potential instead of weeds. My 80 year old oaks(Quercus Robur) set so many seeds that I am constantly pulling them.....until now complaining about them.
Same with my huge Box Elder(Acer negundo) and Field Maple (Acer Campastre).:palm:

Thanks for that info on pruning Shibui, I have two almonds ( huge old trees) that weep from the nuts and wondered if it was gummosis - they need pruning badly as they are tangled together, but because of that apparent gummosis I never have pruned them, but before I brought this place someone did a bad job and possums have chewed them too.
I will take your advice and not twist or plait them together....nature knows best.
cheers Sue
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Re: Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

Post by shibui »

Cherries are very prone to suckering. I'm surprised you only have these few. Digging around the tree makes the problem even worse and you can end up with a whole forest in very short time.
I usually mound up the soil around the suckers and keep them well watered over summer. By next winter you should have small roots growing from the sucker stems where they were buried and you can simply cut the sucker just above the main root they are growing from. If you want the clump intact you could also cut through the parent root and transplant. You only need to have a few small whispy roots for successful transplant in winter. I was surprised how little root is needed but they grow quite easily as cuttings so you could probably be successful even with no roots.
Your cherry suckers will be from the rootstock the tree is grafted onto. not sure which species is used but they do tend to grow very tall and very straight so you will need to prune quite a lot to get taper and movement into your trunks using this material.

Box elder can be used for bonsai but does not make good bonsai. It has compound large leaves and straight growth habit. good for practice but not great bonsai.
Try some oaks but don't be surprised if they take forever. Slow growing and don't ramify very well.
Field maple grows a bit quicker and the ones I have worked with quickly produce fantastic nebari without any encouragement but they also don't ramify very well so I have a great root base but poor tree on top. The poms use it but only because it is a native for them and because they can collect older material grown wild.
You will probably also find more suitable plants through the garden and nearby so keep looking. Older trees and shrubs, like the hawthorns you have identified, also yield great potensai.
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Re: Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

Post by Max »

also yield great potensai = potential bonsai :reading: :lol:
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Re: Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

Post by SueBee »

All good advice and taken on board thank you Shibui. I didn't know that cherries sucker so will now go check around the others - though this one in the vegie bed would be more disturbed than the others. I'll check and see what rootstock is used for "Stella" cherries but it is not the fruit but the bonsai I am hoping for.
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Re: Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

Post by SueBee »

Found this on the NSW Dept of Ag site.
"The two main rootstocks currently used on cherries in Australia are Mazzard F12 1 and Colt™ there appears to be regionally based preferences for one instead of the other."

Not that that really helps as it may be either and how they grow in the wild is unknown to me as yet.
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Re: Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

Post by alpineart »

Hi SueBee, Avium and Cerasus are also used . The cherries I have here are red , black , sour and MT Fuji all sucker and the severed roots left in the ground continue to sprout on all of them , they are like Chinese Elms / Noxious weeds . All air layer quite easy and root cutting are even easier they will sprout in a compost heap or laying on top of the ground .

The only pest issue I have here is Aphids

Cheers . Alpine
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Re: Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

Post by SueBee »

I have Sir Don,,Lapin,Stella and Sour Cherry (forget name). Until I moved here from the Wimmera it was always a dream to grow cherries (and rhodos) - now you tell me they are a weed ! :lol: ...my pests are pear & cherry slug which overwinter on the feral Hawthorns in the area and of course birds. I keep them below 2 metres so I can net them against birds.
Maybe the NSW Ag site just mentions commercial rootstocks or the main ones they recommend ? I Didn't think of that.
Last edited by SueBee on November 23rd, 2017, 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Advice needed on a fruiting Cherry.

Post by shibui »

Mazzard is a clonal name for a selected P. avium cherry rootstock so you are both talking about the same thing by different names.
Colt is a clonal rootstock derived from a Prunus avium x Prunus pseudocerasus cross so that's probably also the same thing too. (alpine said Cerasus rather than pseudocerasus)

In most cases, rootstocks are selected for their vigour and disease resistance. Disease resistance is probably good for bonsai but I find the rootstocks just a bit too coarse and strong growing to produce well shaped bonsai because they are just a bit too vigorous.
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