Bougies flowering all the way back to 1st node??

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Bougies flowering all the way back to 1st node??

Postby Iheartbougs » May 13th, 2018, 7:21 am

I'm under the impression that, on terminally-flowering (ie flowering from apical-tips of the shoots) species, when the tip and nodes beneath it begin flowering, they're no longer able to go vegetative (so, if you're developing primary-branches on collected stock, and wanted to continue fattening the base of a primary branch, you'd let it continue onward by letting the next-lowest, non-flowering node become the new leader.

The problem that I've encountered is that, after a spring hard-pruning (I'm in the US, semi-tropical FL zone 9b, it's mid-spring now the prunings were ~1mo ago), I have a bunch of bougies that, upon re-growing from pruning, are flowering on *every* node, like some of them are hardwood cuttings I propagated and only have 2 or 3 primaries, I let those grow & flower over the winter as long branches, in spring I cut-back to 2 nodes on all shoots and am now getting flowers at those nodes instead of the tree pushing new limbs (or, in other instances, am getting short shoots with 3-4 nodes, but those nodes are flowering too)

Was my understanding wrong? I thought that was pretty much the rule, that once a tip flowers, that tip doesn't (ever) revert to vegetative, that whole branch relies on a lower-down node to start vegetative growth again- if *all* nodes flower, what then?

Thanks for any thoughts on this, I'd like to say 'maybe bougies are an exception to that rule' but even Adam Lavigne told me that was the case (unsure how known he'd be on this board but he lives in my area, runs the adamaskwhy.com blog and is, for my area, a "bougainvillea go-to" person), so am worried how these specimen can ever continue vegetative growth when every node has started flowering :/


(also, if anyone's got tips on how to thwart flowering, or reduce flowering, I'd love to hear it! I love their flowers but all my bougies (50+) are 'in-development' so bad that I'm still working for primary branch structure so want them vegetative as possible! I do the expected 'tricks' ie don't let them get too-dry, keep them with high nitro / low phosphorous, etc but right now that's as much as I can do, when they begin flowering I typically let them develop any particular flower for ~1wk before cutting it off, am unsure what the horticultural implications are but I suspect/hope it "gets it out of flower-mode" quicker *and*, well, those flowers are just caterpillar-magnets this time of year!)

Again thanks for any thoughts on any of this, bougainvilleas are the core of my collection and one of my favorite species so was referred to this board due to that as well as having found myself getting here via google often enough when searching bougie-topics, am hoping to get a new perspective and hope it's not a faux pas on my end to be an outsider posting to your Australian board!!

Happy gardening guys&gals :)
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Re: Bougies flowering all the way back to 1st node??

Postby kcpoole » May 13th, 2018, 10:24 am

Interesting thoughts and never really noticed on any of mine if they flower on the same shoot or not :lost:

I just cut all mine back hard when needed as a like to see them ion flower and not try to stop them :lol:
I suppose just cutting off any flowers when you see them as early as possible will be the best way though

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Re: Bougies flowering all the way back to 1st node??

Postby melbrackstone » May 15th, 2018, 9:21 pm

Mirai live had a very informative bougie stream last year. If you're a member I'd check it out for good quality bougie info.
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Re: Bougies flowering all the way back to 1st node??

Postby Starfox » May 16th, 2018, 9:30 pm

If I understood the post correctly and to be fair I'm not sure I did... but the growing tips certainly do keep on extending beyond the flowers/bracts. It either keeps growing and creates more flowers or more vegetative growth.

This one is certainly growing beyond the flower and has new growth, I'd expect it to continue to extend both below and above the flowering.

drf.jpg
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Last edited by Starfox on May 16th, 2018, 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bougies flowering all the way back to 1st node??

Postby Iheartbougs » May 18th, 2018, 5:54 am

melbrackstone wrote:Mirai live had a very informative bougie stream last year. If you're a member I'd check it out for good quality bougie info.

Don't have membership in that club :/ Do know of that vid and really wish I could see it but not in a position to sign-up for it

Starfox wrote:If I understood the post correctly and to be fair I'm not sure I did... but the growing tips certainly do keep on extending beyond the flowers/bracts. It either keeps growing and creates more flowers or more vegetative growth.

This one is certainly growing beyond the flower and has new growth, I'd expect it to continue to extend both below and above the flowering.

drf.jpg


Interesting, I was told the opposite - maybe I misunderstood what they were saying, will have to check it out (the person saying it was a known-name so am guessing I misinterpreted them, not that they were wrong!)

I'm not in a stage to really enjoy the flowers yet, am only ~1yr on most of them (bougies make up the majority of my collection) so am just trying to push growth as hard as I can and they will spend so much time in-flower if left to their own devices - I know it's not your thing, but if you were trying to keep them pushing growth / not flowering would you do the 'prune back' approach or the 'remove flowers as they appear' approach? I've found issues with pruning too-often it seems to really push them to flower, have had situations where I try to get it back to vegetative from flowering by doing a hard-prune to all the branches, and what I've gotten back was new growth that was flowering as it grew, like 1-2 node shoots that were flowering!

(FWIW I'm doing all the basic stuff to keep it vegetative ie high nitro/low phosphorous, not letting them dry out too much, etc etc ;D )
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Re: Bougies flowering all the way back to 1st node??

Postby loyskirineba » May 18th, 2018, 9:48 am

IMG_1987.JPG
The problem that I've encountered is that, after a spring hard-pruning (I'm in the US, semi-tropical FL zone 9b, it's mid-spring now the prunings were ~1mo ago), I have a bunch of bougies that, upon re-growing from pruning, are flowering on *every* node, like some of them are hardwood cuttings I propagated and only have 2 or 3 primaries, I let those grow & flower over the winter as long branches, in spring I cut-back to 2 nodes on all shoots and am now getting flowers at those nodes instead of the tree pushing new limbs (or, in other instances, am getting short shoots with 3-4 nodes, but those nodes are flowering too)


I was given a bougie stump about 2 seasons ago and from my understanding of it... if I position it on a less sunny area and kept it moist all the time it will throw out branches with long internodes /no flowers. ( good for thickening branches) and of course if you do the opposite :whistle: flowers everywhere :)

Pics are taken this morning and it's autumn here in melbourne ;)
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Re: Bougies flowering all the way back to 1st node??

Postby Iheartbougs » May 23rd, 2018, 5:07 am

loyskirineba wrote:
The problem that I've encountered is that, after a spring hard-pruning (I'm in the US, semi-tropical FL zone 9b, it's mid-spring now the prunings were ~1mo ago), I have a bunch of bougies that, upon re-growing from pruning, are flowering on *every* node, like some of them are hardwood cuttings I propagated and only have 2 or 3 primaries, I let those grow & flower over the winter as long branches, in spring I cut-back to 2 nodes on all shoots and am now getting flowers at those nodes instead of the tree pushing new limbs (or, in other instances, am getting short shoots with 3-4 nodes, but those nodes are flowering too)


I was given a bougie stump about 2 seasons ago and from my understanding of it... if I position it on a less sunny area and kept it moist all the time it will throw out branches with long internodes /no flowers. ( good for thickening branches) and of course if you do the opposite :whistle: flowers everywhere :)

Pics are taken this morning and it's autumn here in melbourne ;)



Nice stump I love thick bougies!! Have been propagating lots of small ones but have some >1' wide yamadori ('yardadori' lol) and other larger, collected bougies, they're just a fantastic species!

SOOOooo, I want to be sure I understand you here - you're saying that moderate light (any rough description how moderate?) is a key to getting them to flower less - while I don't dispute that in the least, I don't know that less light = less flowering-% as far as growth's concerned, I guess what I mean is that if it's not growing as vigorously (in full light) then it's not going to put out as many / any flowers - but if you're able to keep a branch growing despite flowering - something claimed&shown up-thread in post#4 by @Starfox (can you tag people in posts on this site? Would love to know how, the @ symbol didn't seem to highlight it..) - then wouldn't the fastest path to primary-branch-girth (when in early development of basic branch structure) be to keep it in full light and remove the flowers as they form? Am going to re-quote Starfox to get his/her attn because I don't know how else to tag:

Starfox wrote:If I understood the post correctly and to be fair I'm not sure I did... but the growing tips certainly do keep on extending beyond the flowers/bracts. It either keeps growing and creates more flowers or more vegetative growth.

This one is certainly growing beyond the flower and has new growth, I'd expect it to continue to extend both below and above the flowering.

drf.jpg


Starfox, I'd like to know your thoughts on how I should handle a prototypical example of a bougie I'm unsure of how to prune, it's stock I propagated last year that's grown-out and I'm unsure if I should let it continue, or if it's ready to get a 'hard-prune' (to 2-3 nodes / shoot), if you happen to have a moment I'd love your thoughts on my new thread here: https://www.ausbonsai.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=25646, I've got so many bougies like this that I'm worried have too-many growing-tips, am unsure whether I should be doing hard-prunes or trying to just remove flowers & wait on growth to resume, the thread has a pic but beneath that there's a link to a carefully curated & chronological progress album of the specimen so if you have a second I'd love your thoughts!
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