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Ilex serrata
Posted: May 18th, 2023, 9:19 am
by treeman
I had to keep it in a cage to see any fruit.
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Re: Ilex serrata
Posted: May 18th, 2023, 9:37 am
by PeachSlices
Looking good Mike,
Heres my project i picked up the other day, According to Ray Nesci its the mother tree of all his cuttings he made 30 years ago.
342182253_3029583304012762_6522456417875108830_n.jpg
Do you have a male plant or male-less?
Simon
Re: Ilex serrata
Posted: May 18th, 2023, 12:37 pm
by treeman
PeachSlices wrote: ↑May 18th, 2023, 9:37 am
Looking good Mike,
Heres my project i picked up the other day, According to Ray Nesci its the mother tree of all his cuttings he made 30 years ago.
342182253_3029583304012762_6522456417875108830_n.jpg
Do you have a male plant or male-less?
Simon
That should make a nice tree Simon.
I'm not sure what you mean by your question? If you mean has this been pollinated by a male, then yes. I shake the pollen over the top over several days when they are both ready.
Re: Ilex serrata
Posted: May 18th, 2023, 1:04 pm
by TimS
Beautiful tree Mike, id love to grow i.serrata but I can never find both make and female plants
Re: Ilex serrata
Posted: May 18th, 2023, 1:57 pm
by KIRKY
Really like the tree Mike, is this the same tree you posted back in 2019, I remember it too was caged
If so it’s put on some serious girth.
Cheers
Kirky
Re: Ilex serrata
Posted: May 18th, 2023, 1:58 pm
by KIRKY
Great score Simon, please make sure to post your project as it develops. Can’t wait to see it in the future.
Cheers
Kirky
Re: Ilex serrata
Posted: May 18th, 2023, 2:08 pm
by Daluke
TimS wrote: ↑May 18th, 2023, 1:04 pm
Beautiful tree Mike, id love to grow i.serrata but I can never find both make and female plants
They are out there. Getting a nice female is the challenge.
Re: Ilex serrata
Posted: May 18th, 2023, 2:29 pm
by KIRKY
Re: Ilex serrata
Posted: May 18th, 2023, 10:55 pm
by PeachSlices
[/quote]
That should make a nice tree Simon.
I'm not sure what you mean by your question? If you mean has this been pollinated by a male, then yes. I shake the pollen over the top over several days when they are both ready.
[/quote]
Thats what i meant, I only have a small male plant and alot of girl plants and no bees.
can i collect male flowers if they bloom before females?
Simon
Re: Ilex serrata
Posted: May 19th, 2023, 9:08 am
by Daluke
What do you mean by collect?
Keep the trees next to one and other. They will pollinate - it’s not just bees, but butterflies, lady bugs etc.
You can even pollinate yourself - people do it with tooth picks and brushes.
Re: Ilex serrata
Posted: May 19th, 2023, 9:40 am
by shibui
It is possible to collect and store pollen where males and females flower at different times but it is far more usual for both sexes to flower at the same time. It would not make much evolutionary sense if all the male trees flowered before or after the females.
Pollen can be frozen for long term storage.
Collect pollen from male flowers. Taking the whole stamen is Ok provided the pollen is ripe.
Place collected pollen in a bowl and allow to dry for 24 hours. Fresh pollen has too much moisture to retain viability in storage.
Place dried pollen into a sealed container and store in the freezer. Some experts seem to recommend adding silica gel to make sure the pollen stays dry through storage and thawing.
Pollen should also store for a few days in the fridge. Dry as above or put silica gel packs in with the pollen to absorb residual moisture.
I see that Treeman says he 'shakes' pollen over the female flowering tree to get fertilisation. I shake male pine cones over other trees to pollinate female cones because they are wind pollinated so pollen floats to the females but the few references I can find say that Ilex are insect pollinated which usually means the pollen is larger and sticky so doesn't shake off easily like it does in wind pollinated genera. When no insects are present it is usually necessary to rub male flowers onto female flowers or use a small paintbrush to transfer pollen.
Honey bees are not the only pollinators for most flowers. Hoverflies, flies, native bees, butterflies and many other insects are also good pollinators when no honey bees are present. maybe Peach Slices has other insects that will help pollinate the ilex flowers in his garden?
Just wondering if Treeman has natural pollinators in the garden and shaking male flowers is not really necessary or effective?
Re: Ilex serrata
Posted: May 19th, 2023, 10:03 am
by PeachSlices
Ray Nesci suggested i get some Lavender plants and scatter them around where i needed plants to be pollinated as it attracts the insects????
Simon
Re: Ilex serrata
Posted: May 19th, 2023, 10:12 am
by KIRKY
That makes sense, bees love lavender. I read that planting a male beside the female tree works. So possibly if you have shelves you can place male on top shelf, female below. Should cover both insect and wind pollination. As Mike shakes the male over the female tree it should work covering both bases.
Still a lovely tree Simon, can’t wait to see it covered in berries.
Cheers
Kirky
Re: Ilex serrata
Posted: May 19th, 2023, 11:41 am
by treeman
shibui wrote: ↑May 19th, 2023, 9:40 am
It is possible to collect and store pollen where males and females flower at different times but it is far more usual for both sexes to flower at the same time. It would not make much evolutionary sense if all the male trees flowered before or after the females.
Pollen can be frozen for long term storage.
Collect pollen from male flowers. Taking the whole stamen is Ok provided the pollen is ripe.
Place collected pollen in a bowl and allow to dry for 24 hours. Fresh pollen has too much moisture to retain viability in storage.
Place dried pollen into a sealed container and store in the freezer. Some experts seem to recommend adding silica gel to make sure the pollen stays dry through storage and thawing.
Pollen should also store for a few days in the fridge. Dry as above or put silica gel packs in with the pollen to absorb residual moisture.
I see that Treeman says he 'shakes' pollen over the female flowering tree to get fertilisation. I shake male pine cones over other trees to pollinate female cones because they are wind pollinated so pollen floats to the females but the few references I can find say that Ilex are insect pollinated which usually means the pollen is larger and sticky so doesn't shake off easily like it does in wind pollinated genera. When no insects are present it is usually necessary to rub male flowers onto female flowers or use a small paintbrush to transfer pollen.
Honey bees are not the only pollinators for most flowers. Hoverflies, flies, native bees, butterflies and many other insects are also good pollinators when no honey bees are present. maybe Peach Slices has other insects that will help pollinate the ilex flowers in his garden?
Just wondering if Treeman has natural pollinators in the garden and shaking male flowers is not really necessary or effective?
I've never seen an insect on the Ilex flowers. Perhaps hover flies or ants?? The pollen is very loose and mobile so placing a male up-wind will do the trick.