English Oak for cut down to Shohin - options

[cre8ivbonsai]

Hi everyone,

I've had this Quercus Robur for about 3+ yrs, and was never quite sure on it's direction ... until now ... it's destiny is to become a Shohin. It will be getting the chop tomorrow or Sun. I can see three different options for the cut back so included are two views of each option, yellow shows the cuts, red the trunk direction. This is only my second real attempt at a Shohin, and I would highly value your opinions ...

OPTION 1 gives the best taper with some movement and the leader (which is still flexible for wiring) is already partially developed. Informal upright styling.

SO_1.jpg

SO_1a.jpg

OPTION 2 gives the most movement, and may be considered for possible windswept styling.

SO_2.jpg

SO_2b.jpg

OPTION 3 gives heavy movement, and maintains the thickest trunk option.

SO_3.jpg

SO_3a.jpg

and just for reference a dodgy overall view...

SO_overall.jpg

I welcome all of your comments and advice

Thanks, Ryan

[nealweb]

Hey mate, why don't you consider holding off working on the stock until the start of the shohin comp, then you can enter it (or is that just a trubk chop which you can do before ???? )

[kcpoole]

What about Option 3, but keep the stub of the first branch? ( take off at the first Bend on it)

Will give you a start of a powerful lowest branch

Ken

[Greenhorn]

hi cre8iv i agree with ken i like option 3 because it has the est movement and most character i think.

[cre8ivbonsai]

Thanks Neil, yeah I was considering that, just wasn't sure about the pre-styling section of the rules ...

Stock can be obtained from anywhere provided NO PRIOR STYLING has been done other than trunk chopping and root work. You can collect, purchase from a bonsai or general nursery, take a cutting/layer from an untrained tree or you may already own suitable stock. It just cannot have had any previous Styling! There is no price restriction and any species can be used.

It has had some minor wiring to the upper section in the past, but all of that is getting the chop

I've just been chomping at the bit to do this since late last summer but I might just wait another month and pop it in as 1 of the 3 entrees, leave it for the judges to make that call , and in the meantime get a decent before photo I guess you'lll all have to wait and see which option I take

we'll see what the powers that be recon when it comes to the comp, but it's gonna get the chop either way

Thanks Ken and Greenhorn, that might work, I was just concerned as a lower branch it might appear too thick when compared to the rest of the tree

Ryan

[Hornet]

I'm torn between option 2 and 3. Cant wait to see how this develops

[Craig]

as Engish Oaks are fairly slow growing i would not cut anything for a couple more years yet. Planting this tree in the ground or something to gain extra weight on the trunk would be a good idea.

Hey mate, why don't you consider holding off working on the stock until the start of the shohin comp, then you can enter it

IMO,English Oaks are too slow growing to be of any use to you in this Comp, however to each his own,

[kcpoole]

Hey Ryan the suggestion of leaving the lower stub may well look to "heavy" especially in a fey years, but if you were considerling the tree as a Comp tree, I think you will need it
As craig says, Oaks are Not fast growers ( but are not what I call slow either), but you will need to bulk the branch will give for the comp

Ken

[Jamie]

gday guys

umm I have a little concern here in the sense of getting a shohin out of an oak, not saying it cant be done, but there is a few big obstacles in the way. I think the stock you have Ryan in time will be good as you can pretty much get a deciduous tree to do what you want. my concern is mainly the leaf size, getting it down to look right with a shohin size might be somewhat difficult. second is getting the branching to look right as I think that it will become rather heavy after a few years and be out of porpotion.

im not saying that oaks arent good for bonsai, far from it, there are some around that will/are going to be great, but these trees are all over 30cm tall at least, above this height trunk and branching to leaf size work well for oak, below it is rather difficult.

hopefully you dont take this the wrong way as I would love to be proved wrong and see a shohin made from one

what ever you decide to do with this good luck and keep us all posted

[kcpoole]

Hey Jamie
English Oak can have good reduction in leaf size.
Mine ( that is now departed) got leaves down to less than 1 inch in lenght.

However my Pin Oak will not reduce at all for me

Ken

[cre8ivbonsai]

Thank you all for your thoughts about this tree. Agreed this species is probably not 'ideal' for the Shohin comp (or Shohin in general), especially with it's larger foliage and thick branch growth, however last growing season I did get a reasonable amount of growth. And, I don't have the space at the moment to set this one aside for a couple of years of unhindered growth. So, with lots of defoliating, trimming and wiring ahead, I'll give it a go
Jamie, I'm always up for a challenge (and often doing thing the hard way). I also love trying to do something different, (I also assume there'll be a lot of Ficus, Trident Maples etc being entered).
It may not work, but I'm sure everyone would be interested in the outcome, and, at the end of the day if it's no good I can just as easily bang it in a grow box at the end of the comp, nothing to lose really as this will be more of an experiment than an award winner.

Thanks again, for all the warnings and advise Craig, Ken and Jamie, your input is always warmly received.

Cheers, Ryan

[Sabamiki AKA Craig]

Ryan, from experiences i have had English Oak doesn't like to be totally defoliated, good luck bud

[Jamie]

fair enough mate

I can understand exactly what ya saying and dont get me wrong they do have merit as bonsai. as KC said he has had success in getting leaf size down so it is possible. 1 inch leaves would look in porpotion to a taller shohin, up to 22-25cm just on the margin, one inch leaf will work

I had a robur a while back to and complete defoliation did stress it big time, so just be a little cautious, maybe just remove only the 2-3 biggest leaves every 5 days and after a while you should be left with the smallest leaves

[cre8ivbonsai]

Oakay so leaf size is a challenge, new leaves are great, these leaves are about 3 week old and now too large. branching is also hard work given the way buds form and branches grow from them.

Good bit of fun though