AusBonsai

shibui wrote: Maybe you are diplomatically trying to point out that I should have lifted these and pruned the roots a bit more often? - You are absolutely correct - Mea Culpa

Lol.. Nah Shibui, just genuinely interested in advantages/disadvantages of the two methods. As I'm learning, with a lot of bonsai training methods, sometimes quick results aren't always the best results.

I have a bunch of maples on the go at the moment too and so far have just been training the nebari using regular root pruning. I'm wondering that if you still need to lift and do regular root pruning using the holey tile method if the results will be that much different?

I may have try some of this years whips with this method to see how it goes?

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Great looking bases on yours Neil. So do you think that if time permits, it would be better to lift annually and prune back the roots to try and control the vigour?

So do you think that if time permits, it would be better to lift annually and prune back the roots to try and control the vigour?

I note that a couple of other good growers advocate yearly root pruning even if the trees are in the ground. I seem to be able to get away with 2 yearly digging but still get occasional dominant roots. Some of this year's crop have been in 3 years because the summer before was so dry they did not develop and I left most in the beds. looks like even though the tops did not grow much the roots did.

You are looking for high quality shohin trees. It will be even more important to have roots in proportion so I would try to root prune every year. Cut any thick roots very short because the root ramification on a small tree needs to start very close to the trunk. Developing them slowly will give better trees with few scars in the long run. I'd keep a few in smaller pots and spend a couple of extra years developing some really good ones.

I repotted these guy's on the weekend and was pleased to find that last years efforts had paid off with the trunks and bases progressing well on most of them.
I invested in them again by spreading the roots, planting on plastic discs and if there were sides with no roots, I did partial layers.
Hopefully the ones cut back will back-shoot in the right places so I can slowly start developing branches. If I don't get branches in the right spots I'll graft them. There are a couple in the bunch that are really showing good potential so I feel the effort if worth continuing

Regards,
Steven

Fantastic work Steven and a very inspirational thread from you and Shibui 's input.

cheers Anthony

Great work here..

I have no words...

Nice work Steven!

These have really opened my eyes! Thanks Steven and Neil!

Thanks for the positive feedback. In hindsight I should have put more irregular bends into the lower trunks. Less S's and Coils. The random looking ones look the best

Wish I knew how to get sacrifice branched growing from close to the base!!! Neil, any tips? Would it help to graft branches down low on the outside of curves and at the back of the base to increase the girth down low?

Regards,
Steven

Nice work boss!

Will be watching with interest.

Thanks for sharing this Steven. Certainly has provided some food for thought.

One question though, approximately how long did you leave the wire on before removing it?

Wish I knew how to get sacrifice branched growing from close to the base!!! Neil, any tips? Would it help to graft branches down low on the outside of curves and at the back of the base to increase the girth down low?

The only reliable way I know of to get plenty of low branches is to prune very early. Nip out the tips when the trunk is only a few cm tall or cut back taller ones to leave just a few lower buds. This will only work where there are buds on the trunk that can provide the new shoots. Fast grown seedlings will have longer internodes so less low branches and more spread out, even after you cut them. Seedlings that have struggled and grown slowly will usually have shorter internodes with buds closer together so you can get more shoots growing closer to the base where you want them. I remember an old Bonsai Focus magazine article where the author defoliated very small maple seedlings to limit their energy production and therefore get shorter internodes. That could be an option if you want to follow the low sacrifice branch path but all these options will slow development to some extent. I'm not sure whether there is a way to have your cake and eat it as well???

Low sacrifice branches are a two edged sword. They will increase trunk diameter low down but they will also leave scars that will take some time to heal. When growing larger trees you can afford to let a leader or branch grow freely to help scars below heal more quickly but with smaller trees that can quickly destroy the shape you have worked hard for. We have seen occasional posts about leaving a flap of bark to sort of graft over pruning scars but I have not tried it so can't say how it would work.
I prefer to let the lateral roots do the job. Every time I root prune I am still pleasantly surprised to see the buttressed base that develops after a couple of years when the tree is totally reliant on an evenly spread lateral root system that develops with this method.

Other suggestions to selectively increase trunk diameter include wounding where you want extra size. We have probably all experienced the frustration of getting inverse taper as a result of pruning and the resulting callus and scar tissue grows faster than surrounding trunk? I have seen recommendations that it is possible to increase trunk size at a given place by a. repeatedly stabbing the trunk ; b. making vertical cuts through the bark; c. lightly hammering the bark to bruise the cambium below. All these suggestions are aimed at producing scar tissue which, in theory, should increase the trunk thickness at that point. I have been trying this on a couple of maples aver the past few years but can't report outstanding success so far. Maybe someone else has had better results?

Very few techniques will be 100% successful because we are working with living things and there are so many other factors that will influence the outcomes. My approach comes down to starting lots and selecting the best as they develop.

Thanks very much for your concise reply Neil
Regards,
Steven

It looks like one of those Japanese shohin nurseries. Fantastic!