Nire geyaki or Hokkeido elm

[Pup]

Friday week Mrs Pup and I visited an old friend in both senses. She had asked me to sharpen and clean her tools for. We were going the to pay for some pots I bought.

Long story short she gave me this Nire geyaki a type of elm!!. It was one of the original imports.

Last Tuesday we were at another friends doing some work in a mutual workshop situation. When another friend re gifted some cuttings I had given her 4 years ago.
She felt they were not getting the proper care so here we are.
To day I decided to do some pruning and cleaning out of the old soil and get rid of the high growing roots. The cuttings are soaking in water with some Superthrive.

So here are the results for your amusment

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[Webos]

Hi Pup,
I'm just dropping by to ask if you could describe for me how to differentiate between the "Seiju" and the Nire-Geyaki" elms.

Thanks a lot

[bodhidharma]

Hi ya Pup. Isnt it nice when sometimes when people gift you things ( like a tree) you wonder what to do with it. You have done what i reckon i would have done. Strip them down a bit and see what you got. I have a question, they look very, very similar to the Seiju elm, are they one and the same

[Pup]

Hi Pup,
I'm just dropping by to ask if you could describe for me how to differentiate between the "Seiju" and the Nire-Geyaki" elms.

Thanks a lot

Seiju has very corky bark, Nire do not they are much slower growers also. If you have access to Classic Bonsai of Japan you will see a couple in there.

[Pup]

Hi ya Pup. Isnt it nice when sometimes when people gift you things ( like a tree) you wonder what to do with it. You have done what i reckon i would have done. Strip them down a bit and see what you got. I have a question, they look very, very similar to the Seiju elm, are they one and the same

Bohdi no they are not the same they do have similarity's, but Seiju has a much more corky bark and is a lot faster in growth.

[Jarrod]

Love the work you are doing on this. I thought it was Nire Keyaki? Not geyaki, unless it's another variety?

[Pup]

Love the work you are doing on this. I thought it was Nire Keyaki? Not geyaki, unless it's another variety?

According to the book Classic Bonsai of Japan plate 162 Nire-geyaki ( a type of Japanese elm )

A quote from the book on Nire-geyaki ( a type of Japanese elm ) this bit is interesting Ulmus parvifolia ( common name Chinese elm my quote )

This species is suited to the miniature Bonsai; small leaves are a natural advantage,and dwarf varieties are often used. When cut back,the Nire-geyaki often puts out shoots on the trunk,and it is easy to make a dense growth of small branches. The surface, too, easily acquires an old roughened look.

Replanting in a smaller pot would enhance this specimens scale.

Cheers Pup

[MattA]

Hi Pup,

I recently acquired an old hokkeido elm that is very rootbound and long bare growth (12" black pot, approx 30yrs old). Was planning on cutting it back hard & regrowing, when is the best time? should i wait till spring as i had planned? I dont want to waste any part of it, as this is only the second i have ever seen in person, was planning on using all the cut off material as cuttings to share round my local club.

Matt

[Pup]

Hi Pup,

I recently acquired an old hokkeido elm that is very rootbound and long bare growth (12" black pot, approx 30yrs old). Was planning on cutting it back hard & regrowing, when is the best time? should i wait till spring as i had planned? I dont want to waste any part of it, as this is only the second i have ever seen in person, was planning on using all the cut off material as cuttings to share round my local club.

Matt

Matt I did mine yesterday I will be making sure that the after care for the original tree is optimum, and all the cutting's are given the best chance with a good seed raising mix to strike them. I will use striking hormones for hard wood and keep the mix moist but not wet.

If you prefer to wait till spring that is also fine, just do the same then. I have found that they grow and strike pretty well all year except winter. Good luck.
Cheers Pup

[Jarrod]

Love the work you are doing on this. I thought it was Nire Keyaki? Not geyaki, unless it's another variety?

According to the book Classic Bonsai of Japan plate 162 Nire-geyaki ( a type of Japanese elm )

A quote from the book on Nire-geyaki ( a type of Japanese elm ) this bit is interesting Ulmus parvifolia ( common name Chinese elm my quote )

Replanting in a smaller pot would enhance this specimens scale.

Cheers Pup

Hi Pup,

Thanks for that. I will keep looking for more information on the species you have mentioned. As yet I have found no reference anywhere for it! Always pushes me to Nire Keyaki. I am very interested in these small leaved elms. I have one but want more.

[Jamie]

pup,

nice work as usual i was just looking at the tree in the middle of the three you have there and i noticed a little reverse taper from where all the branching was coming out, will this eventually grow out or isnt it a major factor on mini's?
i do like them, love the small leaves, another tree to put on the wish list that probably wouldnt do to well here

jamie

[Pup]

pup,

nice work as usual i was just looking at the tree in the middle of the three you have there and i noticed a little reverse taper from where all the branching was coming out, will this eventually grow out or isnt it a major factor on mini's?
i do like them, love the small leaves, another tree to put on the wish list that probably wouldnt do to well here

jamie

Jamie it is an optical illusion no reverse. Pm me with you address for when the cuttings put down roots. you might be waiting awhile as I have the same problem with locals wanting them. Depends on what I want to keep and what gets passed on. The 2011 convention is coming so I might make a quid .
With mini's we try to stay true to the guidlines to make it look like a tree, its just you only need three baranches and an apex. If you get better, then all the better.

Cheers Pup
edit ps I will be going to Lee's Bonsai world and checking there stock of Mica, this week will let you know.

[Jamie]

ahhh nice pup i started wondering that after i posted aswell re. the reverse taper that isnt there

jamie

[Pup]

Love the work you are doing on this. I thought it was Nire Keyaki? Not geyaki, unless it's another variety?

According to the book Classic Bonsai of Japan plate 162 Nire-geyaki ( a type of Japanese elm )

A quote from the book on Nire-geyaki ( a type of Japanese elm ) this bit is interesting Ulmus parvifolia ( common name Chinese elm my quote )

Replanting in a smaller pot would enhance this specimens scale.

Cheers Pup

Hi Pup,

Thanks for that. I will keep looking for more information on the species you have mentioned. As yet I have found no reference anywhere for it! Always pushes me to Nire Keyaki. I am very interested in these small leaved elms. I have one but want more.

G,day Jarrod after your comment I went further, I have an early magazine Bonsai International Autumn 1981 issue it is part of a glossary on translating Japanese by Chase Rosade.
Under Ulmus ( elm ) he has 3 named and translated. First is Ulmus davidiana var .Japonica; Japanese elm; Haru nire.
Second is U, parvifolia, Chinese elm; Aki nire.
Third is cv ` Suberosa ` Cork- bark Chinese elm; Nire Keyaki.
So we do have one of that name and I apologize for this. What led to my stubbornness is the fact I have suberosa, and this small one I have is nothing like it except that it is an Ulmus.
It was imported as I said in 1985. I have since been told even then elms were forbidden. so I assume imported under Nire geyaki, would have got them though. That is the name I have gone by ever since. Using the reference that Nire is the Japanese word for elm. It does not however explain the reference to Nire geyaki in the Classic Bonsai of Japan, which is also what I based my naming on.
Also I have been told it could be Hokkeido which is a slow growing dwarf!!. Hence the two names in the heading of my thread.
I hope you are not as confused as I am . After this post I am going to google up Hokkeido elm and see what comes up.
Cheers Pup

Edit I googled and I am convinced mine is Hokkeido so Jarrod. I will not refer to it as Nire keyaki or Geyaki again. Cheers Pup

[Jarrod]

I was actually hoping there would be a different variety that you had. It doesn't explain the Quote in the book, unless it was an incorrect translation??

It's a lovely variety and perfect for the smallest trees. Your mame are very special and I can see they bring you much joy.

I just hope that my little one grows into somthing special in time. I will be taking cuttings from it.