[withdrawn][MattA] Crab Apple

MattA · Post by **MattA** » March 8th, 2013, 7:48 am

Species: Unknown Malus variety
Height: 30cm
Origin: A local club member
Cost: Free

Malus1mar13.jpg

malus2mar13.jpg

I recieved this as a small whip in autumn 2010 & it has been ground grown since with the view to eventually styling as shohin, I will have to drive the growth hard if I want a reasonable image in a season but should be fun

MoGanic · Post by **MoGanic** » March 8th, 2013, 9:57 am

Im quite jealous of this starter stock! Don't have any crab-apples but I think I might go out and get some whips... then fly back to 2010 in my magical underpants and plant them in my backyard.

-Mo

MattA · Post by **MattA** » March 8th, 2013, 11:31 am

Mo, it pays to plant a few bits each year, you never know when motivation might stirke..

Mojo Moyogi · Post by **Mojo Moyogi** » March 8th, 2013, 12:06 pm

Matt in the top picture there is a primary branch on the left that has some secondary growth coming off it which looks like the result of branch pruning. My understanding is that branch removal is allowed, training of branches, in this case selective pruning of unwanted growth constitutes prior training. I hope the mods can give a clarification on this, as it would effect my choice of trees dramatically were it allowed

Cheers,
Mojo

MattA · Post by **MattA** » March 8th, 2013, 2:13 pm

Mojo, I have posted for clarification in the main comp thread so will wait to hear back.

As I grow stock for myself, does this give me an unfair advantage over those who can go & buy stock grown by another for the same purpose?

MattA · Post by **MattA** » March 8th, 2013, 5:14 pm

Withdrawn.

Will be up for sale in winter if anyone is interested.

MattA · Post by **MattA** » March 9th, 2013, 7:04 am

To pm

DavidWilloughby · Post by **DavidWilloughby** » March 9th, 2013, 7:56 am

Mojo Moyogi wrote:Matt in the top picture there is a primary branch on the left that has some secondary growth coming off it which looks like the result of branch pruning. My understanding is that branch removal is allowed, training of branches, in this case selective pruning of unwanted growth constitutes prior training. I hope the mods can give a clarification on this, as it would effect my choice of trees dramatically were it allowed

Cheers,
Mojo

Hi Mojo,

In regards to what you have said', couldn't the same be applied to stock purchased from a Bonsai Nursery ? Some Bonsai nurseries work their stock, that be either nebari work or selective pruning, now with what you have mentioned above, isn't that technically the same thing ? It would be very hard to find a clear distinction between the two. The way I look at it is, One is pre-trained bonsai stock from a bonsai nursery and the other is pre-trained bonsai stock from your own grow beds.

Hey, I might be the one who is coming across 'Retentive' in this post but do think that there is merit in my ramble.

Cheers

David

Jasonb · Post by **Jasonb** » March 9th, 2013, 8:37 am

If this is the case then I am going to have to not enter all of my preferred trees as they have had branch reduction in a nursery, and as none of my collected trees are ready to be styled this means i cant enter them either without great risk of killing them. And being a low income earner, this now restricts me as to whether I can afford to buy a tree to enter with....

Jason

Mojo Moyogi · Post by **Mojo Moyogi** » March 12th, 2013, 2:39 pm

DavidWilloughby wrote:
Mojo Moyogi wrote:Matt in the top picture there is a primary branch on the left that has some secondary growth coming off it which looks like the result of branch pruning. My understanding is that branch removal is allowed, training of branches, in this case selective pruning of unwanted growth constitutes prior training. I hope the mods can give a clarification on this, as it would effect my choice of trees dramatically were it allowed

Cheers,
Mojo
Hi Mojo,

In regards to what you have said', couldn't the same be applied to stock purchased from a Bonsai Nursery ? Some Bonsai nurseries work their stock, that be either nebari work or selective pruning, now with what you have mentioned above, isn't that technically the same thing ? It would be very hard to find a clear distinction between the two. The way I look at it is, One is pre-trained bonsai stock from a bonsai nursery and the other is pre-trained bonsai stock from your own grow beds.

Hey, I might be the one who is coming across 'Retentive' in this post but do think that there is merit in my ramble.

Cheers

David

As I posted earlier, this has dramatically changed what I am able to put into the contest. That it is permissible to have done extensive root work and created a trunk with multiple trunk chops and re-growths, yet pruning unwanted growth from a branch once constituted training and is taboo, that seems a little unbalanced to me. Sadly, potentially good trees are going to be left out. Who out there, besides the lazy and complacent grows bonsai and has an abundance of stock trees with untouched branches?

Matt are you able to remove the branch and work from a bud at the base of the branch at least? It seems a shame to withdraw entirely if there are still options available.

Cheers,
Mojo

MattA · Post by **MattA** » March 12th, 2013, 4:25 pm

Mojo,
I withdrew it on my own decision after a pm reply to my question from Steven also questioning the level of work done. Its a case of differing opinions on what is starter stock, to me its barely begun & only has the very basic of trunks...

This has had 3 seasons & 2 chop cycles to obtain the trunkline, after the major chop the first season I left extra growth to help heal that wound instead of leaving a trunk full of chops to heal. The 'primary branch' you mention comes from a secondary trunkline that will need to be carved out thus removing the branch as well, all other branching will be removed aswell, to be regrown in proportion. The timeframe of the comp would not produce a finished tree by any means. In terms of its growth I have been a little disappointed & know the reason is its location. If someone doesnt snap it up before spring I will dig chop & replant to get another years growth in a better spot and hopefully fix a few of the many issues I see this tree as still having.

It is also an example of the sort of stock I would hope I could pick up around one of the bonsai nurseries for a reasonable sum, if I am mistaken in the quality of material available to australian growers I will have to start growing more.. Off to plant a clero hedge of future shohin 'starters'

Mojo Moyogi wrote:Who out there, besides the lazy and complacent grows bonsai and has an abundance of stock trees with untouched branches?

Those of us who are always planting a few bits in the ground to be butchered regularly (or semi such). I have over a dozen shohin projects in the ground at varying stages plus 100 more as part of general planting to be raided whenever

MattA · Post by **MattA** » July 7th, 2013, 10:27 am

Now its out of the ground the true structure & amount of work still needed is clear...

shohin.jpg

Trunk diameter is about 30mm with root flare of over 50mm

Biofusion · Post by **Biofusion** » July 7th, 2013, 2:55 pm

Doesn't the competition allow trunk chopping and root work on otherwise untrained and raw stock?

MattA · Post by **MattA** » July 7th, 2013, 3:20 pm

Biofusion wrote:Doesn't the competition allow trunk chopping and root work on otherwise untrained and raw stock?

The issue as seen by others was

training of branches, in this case selective pruning of unwanted growth constitutes prior training.

as these photo's show, all branching is on excess wood that will need to be removed, at the end of the day it was easier to just not bother than deal with differing peoples perceptions of what constitutes raw or untrained stock...

Beazo1988 · Post by **Beazo1988** » July 7th, 2013, 5:06 pm

No comment.

keep us up to date on the tree though, I'm interested to see this in the future.

Jason

AusBonsai