Any Idea's

We have some unique pests to deal with in Australia. Post your experiences and treatments here for others to learn from.
shibui
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Re: Any Idea's

Post by shibui »

When diagnosing nutrient deficiencies the first thing to look at is whether the symptoms occur on older or newer leaves.
As has been pointed out, these symptoms - green veins with yellow between can be caused by either iron or magnesium deficiency however, iron is immobile. The plant cannot move it from old to new leaves so only younger leaves are affected.
Plants can move Mg through the plant system so if Mg is in short supply they take it from older leaves and move to newer leaves so generally Mg deficiency is seen on older leaves while new leaves are relatively normal.
Therefore, first question to properly diagnose these symptoms is whether it occurs on older or newer leaves.

Sometimes it is not really a deficiency of the element that causes the problem. The supply of Mg is reduced in acid conditions so Mg deficiency is seen most when soils are acid low pH). Iron is more available in acid soils but is locked up when soil conditions become alkaline (high pH). Depending on the problem we can sometimes fix it by changing the soil pH to allow the 'locked up' elements to become available to the plants.
I think this is probably not all that applicable to pot culture where supply of trace elements is rather limited. It would be worth Jag's time to check the pH of the potting mix but the problem will almost certainly be solved by applying trace elements and/or changing to 'balanced' fertiliser - something that gives a regular supply of all the trace elements.

Kevin,
From what i have read on AusBonsai many times is Dynamic Lifter can cause considerable more damage to your potting medium than can be beneficial.
Just because you have read something does not actually make it true. The Dynamic lifter info says neutral to slightly alkaline. I have tested several times and get neutral results. Why are you focussed only on the alkaline part of that statement? I think it would take quite a lot to make significant changes to the pH of potting mix but that's just :imo: Even if it does raise the pH a little, fertilising with any nitrogen fertiliser tends to lower pH so using Dynamic lifter in conjunction with a soluble fert should be beneficial by bringing pH back towards neutral????
Dynamic lifter does break down to sludge but, again, you'd need to be using quite a lot to have much impact on a normal, modern potting mix. All organic components of potting mix break down into fine sludge over time. They break down quicker when nutrients, esp nitrogen, is available so using any fertiliser will produce the same results. I also note that some growers make fertiliser cakes from soy meal, etc. These also break down to sludge but we don't see any reference to this causing root rots.
I do use chook poo pellets (not dynamic lifter but a similar product from different company) and cannot find any problems with using it. :imo: your assertion of
considerable
damage might just be overstating just a little. Just my :2c:
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Jag001
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Re: Any Idea's

Post by Jag001 »

Shibui, all,

thanks for taking the time to respond. I have found Shibui's advice particularly interesting and will take a more detailed look at the tree tomorrow (when it is light outside again lol), however I suspect that Shibui has hit the nail on the head where I believe the yellowing is more pronounce in the older leaves and the flush of new growth does not display this symptoms until such time as it has grown sufficiently and hardened off a little.

What I do find confusing is that I have used a relatively diverse fertilisation program this year, having used surface Dynamic lifer, I have used thrive and also power feed, alternatively.

I will check the Ph out of curiosity and source a more balance fertiliser.

cheers.
Jeff
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Re: Any Idea's

Post by Kevin »

Hello Jeff, Shibui,

My initial thoughts with a diagnosis for Jeff was Manganese (Mn) deficiency.
Then after Jeff's second input when documenting - "regular use of Dynamic Lifter" drew me to think root rot, Manganese deficiency with an alkaline soil - high Ph.

And no Shibui i definitely do not believe everything i read.

Dynamic Lifter and its commercially manufactured cousins are a tremendously beneficial ingredient for plant health and i have personally over many decades become very familiar with this product and the varying differences of Ph levels from batch / 29 tonne truck load.

My hands on knowledge and learned experience with Dynamic Lifter prompted me to quote the above statement - "makes me very apprehensive in using it for Bonsai"
As they say "horses for courses"

I just don't believe in using potentially detrimental ingredients or practices to gain superficial benefits.

Kevin
Last edited by Kevin on April 3rd, 2017, 4:30 am, edited 8 times in total.
Jdceng
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Re: Any Idea's

Post by Jdceng »

Hi Jag001

Ken P posted up on the site to use Neutrog Sudden Impact for Roses from the big green shed.

I have tried that and the quality of the leaves and an abundance of flowers is amazing.

Thanks Ken. :tu:
JC
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Re: Any Idea's

Post by kcpoole »

Jdceng wrote:Hi Jag001

Ken P posted up on the site to use Neutrog Sudden Impact for Roses from the big green shed.

I have tried that and the quality of the leaves and an abundance of flowers is amazing.

Thanks Ken. :tu:
thanks ans yep it is what I have used for years now.
In fact I have just run out so ffo i go to get some more to spread around before autumn hits :-)

Ken
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Re: Any Idea's

Post by Kevin »

Hello Jeff,

My initial thoughts of Manganese deficiency can be ruled out as it too will affect the younger leaves first.
Hopefully your trees present Chlorosis type symptoms are easily remedied and your tree is back to full health quickly.
Can you please, for educational purposes update this thread to let us know how the tree is going.

Thanks and good luck,
Kevin
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Re: Any Idea's

Post by Jag001 »

Kevin wrote:Hello Jeff,

My initial thoughts of Manganese deficiency can be ruled out as it too will affect the younger leaves first.
Hopefully your trees present Chlorosis type symptoms are easily remedied and your tree is back to full health quickly.
Can you please, for educational purposes update this thread to let us know how the tree is going.

Thanks and good luck,
Kevin
Kevin/All,

I will definitely treat the tree and post an update. I appreciate everyone's input on this.

cheers,
Jeff
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Re: Any Idea's

Post by Sammy D »

Kirky spot on I'd go with that. (Iron sulfate).
A stick in a pot is better than no stick at all. Remember even the best bonsai started as a stick.
Jag001
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Re: Any Idea's

Post by Jag001 »

Ok,

today in the better light of day I checked the soil PH which was 6,2 and knowing what to be looking for, I noted that both old growth (as shown in the photo) and to a lesser degree (but still noticeable) the new growth are both showing signs of iron deficiency.

I have treated for iron deficiency and will watch what happens from here.

cheers,
JEff
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