Naniwa and Nagura (Some great info)
- Jester
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Naniwa and Nagura (Some great info)
Hi there crazy kids!!!
Well lately , I have been experimenting with whetstones in order to make sure my shears and other blades remain in good working order. So far, I can't say I have been entirely happy with the level of sharpness I have been able to achieve on my shears despite my persistence and level of experimentation. I recently purchased a whetstone combo; (ie) 600 grade grit on one side and 1000 grade on the other. For what it does, it does well but I can only still shave "fines" off my thumbnail. Unfortunately it is my anal retentiveness that has forced me to take the issue further. In the last week, I have carried out an extraordinary level of research on whetstones and cannot believe how much I have learnt. Well I guess it's no surprise to learn that in most cases, if you want to learn how to properly sharpen blades, than there's a good chance it will have something to do with the Japanese.
2 Critical things I learnt about the Japanese that I would like to share with you that I think will stick in your mind.
1. The Japanese don't sharpen with one stone, they sharpen with a minimum of 3 stages:
1. Grind
2. Sharpen
3. ** Hone
2. The majority of us (westerners) stop at the sharpening stage. This is where the japanese are just getting warmed up and start bringing out the big artillery
The whetstones available from what I understand are generally available in 2 classes:
* Ceramic (Synthetic) ...I think
* Natural (Of which many say can never be beaten)
Some of the mainstream brands in Japan for whetstones include: King, Naniwa(which seems to be the cream of the crop), Ohishi, Kasumi, Sun Tiger, Suehero, Cerax , Shapton and so on.
For those of you who don't know, whetstones, as the name implies are used with water(not oil) and are generally kept wet during the sharpening/honing process. They come in grades ranging from 60 , 240, 400, 600 , 800, 1000, 2000, 3000, 6000, 8000, 10000, 12000 and as far as 30,000 (Yep, that comma is in the right place). (Thirty thousand)
Generally above about the 1000,2000 grit class you can also use a "Nagura" stone. This is a short stocky piece of stone which I'm told is a bit like chalk. When the whetstone is wet, you can rub this on to create a "slurry" which then further enhances the sharpening / honing process. I am currently looking at purchasing a Naniwa combination stone with a 3000/8000 grit class. If anyone knows of anywhere in Australia where this exact whetstone can be purchased I am all ears I will be going to Japan in April and also found out that Kyoto and in particular a place called "Sakai" also known as the city of Knives. I can tell u now that I will be going there like a bullet!! This is where you will see stones that are likely to be marked as "Miscellaneous" in that they are so old, the vendors are probably not even aware of their origins.
I hope you have enjoyed this post and would love to know if any of you have had any good experiences with whetstones and would like to share here.
John
Well lately , I have been experimenting with whetstones in order to make sure my shears and other blades remain in good working order. So far, I can't say I have been entirely happy with the level of sharpness I have been able to achieve on my shears despite my persistence and level of experimentation. I recently purchased a whetstone combo; (ie) 600 grade grit on one side and 1000 grade on the other. For what it does, it does well but I can only still shave "fines" off my thumbnail. Unfortunately it is my anal retentiveness that has forced me to take the issue further. In the last week, I have carried out an extraordinary level of research on whetstones and cannot believe how much I have learnt. Well I guess it's no surprise to learn that in most cases, if you want to learn how to properly sharpen blades, than there's a good chance it will have something to do with the Japanese.
2 Critical things I learnt about the Japanese that I would like to share with you that I think will stick in your mind.
1. The Japanese don't sharpen with one stone, they sharpen with a minimum of 3 stages:
1. Grind
2. Sharpen
3. ** Hone
2. The majority of us (westerners) stop at the sharpening stage. This is where the japanese are just getting warmed up and start bringing out the big artillery
The whetstones available from what I understand are generally available in 2 classes:
* Ceramic (Synthetic) ...I think
* Natural (Of which many say can never be beaten)
Some of the mainstream brands in Japan for whetstones include: King, Naniwa(which seems to be the cream of the crop), Ohishi, Kasumi, Sun Tiger, Suehero, Cerax , Shapton and so on.
For those of you who don't know, whetstones, as the name implies are used with water(not oil) and are generally kept wet during the sharpening/honing process. They come in grades ranging from 60 , 240, 400, 600 , 800, 1000, 2000, 3000, 6000, 8000, 10000, 12000 and as far as 30,000 (Yep, that comma is in the right place). (Thirty thousand)
Generally above about the 1000,2000 grit class you can also use a "Nagura" stone. This is a short stocky piece of stone which I'm told is a bit like chalk. When the whetstone is wet, you can rub this on to create a "slurry" which then further enhances the sharpening / honing process. I am currently looking at purchasing a Naniwa combination stone with a 3000/8000 grit class. If anyone knows of anywhere in Australia where this exact whetstone can be purchased I am all ears I will be going to Japan in April and also found out that Kyoto and in particular a place called "Sakai" also known as the city of Knives. I can tell u now that I will be going there like a bullet!! This is where you will see stones that are likely to be marked as "Miscellaneous" in that they are so old, the vendors are probably not even aware of their origins.
I hope you have enjoyed this post and would love to know if any of you have had any good experiences with whetstones and would like to share here.
John
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Last edited by Jester on January 29th, 2012, 2:48 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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- Booga
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Re: Naniwa and Nagura (Some great info)
Gday john. you got me interested in water stone even if its for my hunting/fishing knives I have heard that they are the best for sharpening blades
A quick google found a few Au dealers
http://chefshat.shopau.info/catalog/pro ... tanrb3jh10
http://www.kizlyarknifestore.com.au/ind ... x&cPath=77
A quick google found a few Au dealers
http://chefshat.shopau.info/catalog/pro ... tanrb3jh10
http://www.kizlyarknifestore.com.au/ind ... x&cPath=77
Last edited by Booga on January 29th, 2012, 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AC/DC died with Bon, And I am on the hwy to hell too...
- Jester
- Hi there crazy kids!!!
- Posts: 910
- Joined: March 15th, 2009, 8:14 pm
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Re: Naniwa and Nagura (Some great info)
Hey Booga, mate you just saved me a lot of time!!! I had a look at a lot of sites but did not come across Chef's hat. Mate you are a deadset legend. Thanks mate
John
PS I don't know why my searches did'nt pick up "Chef's Hat"??
John
PS I don't know why my searches did'nt pick up "Chef's Hat"??
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- bodhidharma
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Re: Naniwa and Nagura (Some great info)
Thanks for the info Jester. Sharpening our tools is something we take too lightly here in the west (unless you are a knife man). I use a diamond blade to sharpen my tools but i know they can be done much, much better. In some places on our planet knife sharpening is an Art form.
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Re: Naniwa and Nagura (Some great info)
Don't count on the vendors not knowing their stuff, its not Bummings staff running things over there
- NathanM
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Re: Naniwa and Nagura (Some great info)
Hmmm, interesting post, thanks John!! I have been wandering about sharpening my tools lately.
Lots of info, thanks mate
Lots of info, thanks mate
- anttal63
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Re: Naniwa and Nagura (Some great info)
Great post John !!! No doubt about the Japanese, when you need to know how it is done better that is where you look...Many ways to do something, only one way to do it properly !!!
Regards Antonio:
- Booga
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Re: Naniwa and Nagura (Some great info)
Ge shucks John but Im not sure about being a legendJester wrote:Hey Booga, mate you just saved me a lot of time!!! I had a look at a lot of sites but did not come across Chef's hat. Mate you are a deadset legend. Thanks mate
John
PS I don't know why my searches did'nt pick up "Chef's Hat"??
AC/DC died with Bon, And I am on the hwy to hell too...
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Re: Naniwa and Nagura (Some great info)
Jester how do you file the concave cutter? I mean the inside of it?
- kcpoole
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Re: Naniwa and Nagura (Some great info)
use a stone with a rounded edge to it. But even then you only take off the burr on the inside, The chamfered face is on the outside only and the inside is flat (relative to the line of the tool)pureheart wrote:Jester how do you file the concave cutter? I mean the inside of it?
Ken
Last edited by kcpoole on October 5th, 2016, 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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