Soil Supply

[xIIRevoEvoS]

I plan on experimenting my own bonsai mix on some starter plants.
Would like to know where I would able to purchase Diatomite/Pumice/Zeolite/Pinebark?
What organic soil should I also get?
Whats the purpose of zeolite and how does it look like?

[bonborn]

Diatomite from Enfield Produce http://www.petandgarden.com.au/

Pine bark precision 3-6mm from Garden City Plastics http://www.gardencityplastics.com/Besgr ... GORCHPRE40#"

Get scoria is you can find graded 5mm ones. Close to impossible in Sydney. 1 just get 10mm ones from Australian Native Landscape ANL and sieve it. I get enough less than 5mm and the 10mm ones i use for large trees.

[xIIRevoEvoS]

Diatomite from Enfield Produce http://www.petandgarden.com.au/

Pine bark precision 3-6mm from Garden City Plastics http://www.gardencityplastics.com/Besgr ... GORCHPRE40#"

Get scoria is you can find graded 5mm ones. Close to impossible in Sydney. 1 just get 10mm ones from Australian Native Landscape ANL and sieve it. I get enough less than 5mm and the 10mm ones i use for large trees.

I have scoria from Bonsai South. 2-3mm

[Isitangus]

U can get zeolite from bunnings-in the pool isle called zeochlor (it is commonly used in pool filters as a replacement for sand)
It aids in drainage but from memory also aids to the transport of nutrients from the soil into the plant


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tim.C]

Coles in Brisbane sell a 100% New Zealand zeolite kitty litter for just under ten bucks for a six kilo bag. Don't know how that compares price wise to Bunnings zeo-clor, or if Sydney coles stock the same as Brisbane. Can't remember the brand though. Havnt tried it either, as I only noticed it the other day. Don't know if that helps or not, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[kcpoole]

Check out this thread not long ago

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=19445&p=196827&hil ... tt#p196827

In Sydney
Diatomite - Enfield Produce - 56 Coronation Pde Enfield NSW - https://www.petandgarden.com.au/
Zeolite - Ray Nesci - Sagars Rd Dural NSW - https://raynescibonsai.com.au/
Pumice - Lux Cuttings Shop 2/273 Anzac Parade, Kingsford NSW - https://luxcuttings.com.au/#contact-us


Ken

[xIIRevoEvoS]

Thanks Ken

[treeman]

I plan on experimenting my own bonsai mix on some starter plants.
Would like to know where I would able to purchase Diatomite/Pumice/Zeolite/Pinebark?
What organic soil should I also get?
Whats the purpose of zeolite and how does it look like?

The experimenting has already been done for you (many...many...many times). You will have equally good (or very often better) growth using a commercial potting mix which complies to the Australian standard. You really cant improve much on it for starters. Obviously shallow containers require modification of the media but for general plastic pots, save yourself time and (lots) of money and use the above type of mix straight from the bag.
Zeolite is a good additive at about 10%. It can reduce ammonium toxicity and also holds the cations NH4, Ca, Mg, K, etc.
But you don't normally need it.

[Jarad]

... You will have equally good (or very often better) growth using a commercial potting mix...

This is the second time I have heard this within the last 4 days... Must be some truth to it... Thanks Mr Treeman.

[xIIRevoEvoS]

I plan on experimenting my own bonsai mix on some starter plants.
Would like to know where I would able to purchase Diatomite/Pumice/Zeolite/Pinebark?
What organic soil should I also get?
Whats the purpose of zeolite and how does it look like?

The experimenting has already been done for you (many...many...many times). You will have equally good (or very often better) growth using a commercial potting mix which complies to the Australian standard. You really cant improve much on it for starters. Obviously shallow containers require modification of the media but for general plastic pots, save yourself time and (lots) of money and use the above type of mix straight from the bag.
Zeolite is a good additive at about 10%. It can reduce ammonium toxicity and also holds the cations NH4, Ca, Mg, K, etc.
But you don't normally need it.

Hey Treeman,

I would like to learn and make mistakes on what works for me, isn't that the fun in bonsai is to see what works and what doesn't?. I still have a long way to go and I am also experiment 2 starter JBP, some starter junipers, maples when I buy them at nesci/megumi this coming week.

[kcpoole]

I plan on experimenting my own bonsai mix on some starter plants.
Would like to know where I would able to purchase Diatomite/Pumice/Zeolite/Pinebark?
What organic soil should I also get?
Whats the purpose of zeolite and how does it look like?

The experimenting has already been done for you (many...many...many times). You will have equally good (or very often better) growth using a commercial potting mix which complies to the Australian standard. You really cant improve much on it for starters. Obviously shallow containers require modification of the media but for general plastic pots, save yourself time and (lots) of money and use the above type of mix straight from the bag.
Zeolite is a good additive at about 10%. It can reduce ammonium toxicity and also holds the cations NH4, Ca, Mg, K, etc.
But you don't normally need it.

After doing my own a and b testing on soils and components, I disagree with this completely. Blanket statements like this are both wrong IMHO, and stifling of creativity and experimentation.

Re the cost, my own mixes are cheaper initially than any commercial mix, and when taken that I reuse it 100 ℅, in the long term is extremely cheap.

Also the biggest deterrent to use commercial mixes (and in fact any organic mix), is the curl grub infestations my plants suffer from when I used them. Now with inorganic substrate I have not seen any in my pots

Ken

[Josh]

I plan on experimenting my own bonsai mix on some starter plants.
Would like to know where I would able to purchase Diatomite/Pumice/Zeolite/Pinebark?
What organic soil should I also get?
Whats the purpose of zeolite and how does it look like?

The experimenting has already been done for you (many...many...many times). You will have equally good (or very often better) growth using a commercial potting mix which complies to the Australian standard. You really cant improve much on it for starters. Obviously shallow containers require modification of the media but for general plastic pots, save yourself time and (lots) of money and use the above type of mix straight from the bag.
Zeolite is a good additive at about 10%. It can reduce ammonium toxicity and also holds the cations NH4, Ca, Mg, K, etc.
But you don't normally need it.

After doing my own a and b testing on soils and components, I disagree with this completely. Blanket statements like this are both wrong IMHO, and stifling of creativity and experimentation.

Re the cost, my own mixes are cheaper initially than any commercial mix, and when taken that I reuse it 100 ℅, in the long term is extremely cheap.

Also the biggest deterrent to use commercial mixes (and in fact any organic mix), is the curl grub infestations my plants suffer from when I used them. Now with inorganic substrate I have not seen any in my pots

Ken

I would have to agree fully with Ken. Firstly I don't get curl grubs either (bonus). Only pots I get them in is standard potting mix. The other thing is I get a much better and finer rootball using my mix rather than standard mix. I also found standard mixes changed a little in consistency so some pots stayed wetter for longer. Mixing own it is all the same. Lastly I too reuse my mix. Makes it very efficient. One other thing is by growing my trees on in the same mix as what I use in bonsai pots makes it really easy to reduce the rootball from a standard pot/grow box to a bonsai pot as I'm not trying to remove different soil from the rootball when repotting. Since making my own mix I've had way less issues than when using commercial mixes. Mixing your own means it is what suits you, water retention etc.

Josh.

Josh.

[treeman]

I disagree with this completely.

Talk about a blanket statement! The only reason you disagree with this COMPLETELY is because you obviously don't yet have the experience of growing hundreds of thousands of plants of hundreds of species all day every day for a number of decades. You name it I have grown it and I also have experimented in the early days with every type of mix you care to imagine. The simple fact is that commercially prepared mixes (which PROPERLY conform with the Australian Standard) have gone through extensive laboritory trials for AFP, WHC, minimum nutrient content (especially Fe) pH etc,m ands most of all growth respose. But you are telling me that your backyard trials overide all those hundreds of thousands spent on commercial trials. Please! You are just demonstrating your ignorance in this matter.
Remember also that I am talking about growing STOCK in standard plastic pots, NOT older trees in bonsai containers which call for a longer lasting and courser mix.

Blanket statements like this are both wrong IMHO, and stifling of creativity and experimentation.

Not a bit of it!
What I am trying to do is stop people wasting time ''experimenting'' when high quality growing media (FOR STOCK) is readily avaiable. Talk to others who grow millions of plants (including trees and shrubs commonly used for bonsai) and they will tell you the same thing. The FACT is that these plants simply grow faster, cleaner and more evenly in the commercial mixes.
That is not to say that all mixes with the AS stamped on them are always perfect. In fact I bought a batch of debco mix which was horrible with a pH of 7.5 and completely hydrophobic on drying. So obviously there are cases where human error plays a part.

Re the cost, my own mixes are cheaper initially than any commercial mix, and when taken that I reuse it 100 ℅, in the long term is extremely cheap.

There is no reason why you cannot prepare a mix which is equal in quality but only if you can properly compare all the parameters I mentioned. Most people who grow lots of plants don't bother. And that was the purpose of my responce ....You don't need to bother.

Also the biggest deterrent to use commercial mixes (and in fact any organic mix), is the curl grub infestations my plants suffer from when I used them. Now with inorganic substrate I have not seen any in my pots

I see no reason why curl grubs should prefer organic over mineral mixes. I have had bad infestations in my soil but this did not translate to any problem in the pots. (curl grubs eat live roots)

[treeman]

Ken

The other thing is I get a much better and finer rootball using my mix rather than standard mix.

Once again I think you also may be confusing mix for stock and mix for bonsai pots (but I'm not sure from what you write). There is no high quality commercial bonsai potting media available in the australian market (from what I have seen) Therefore we must prepare our own.

Lastly I too reuse my mix.

Re-using old mix is a very poor horticultural practice (unless you can heat treat it somehow)

One other thing is by growing my trees on in the same mix as what I use in bonsai pots makes it really easy to reduce the rootball from a standard pot/grow box to a bonsai pot as I'm not trying to remove different soil from the rootball when repotting.

It's nice that it's easy for you but you really should bare root your trees (except pines) when you transfer. This is the best time to thourghly work on the roots.




[/quote]

[kcpoole]

I plan on experimenting my own bonsai mix on some starter plants.
Would like to know where I would able to purchase Diatomite/Pumice/Zeolite/Pinebark?
What organic soil should I also get?
Whats the purpose of zeolite and how does it look like?

You will have equally good (or very often better) growth using a commercial potting mix which complies to the Australian standard. You really cant improve much on it for starters.

I was away from with my first Quote and only using a phone so was difficult to quote only this bit, so will do so again now and reply.

But what is "commercial" potting mix, and to what "standard" does it comply with?
can you please please post a link to it or if not, I am sure you could post an exerpt from it here and not be breaking any rules.

What Brands / product names are formulated for this Bonsai standard Potting mix?

Who in the commercial Bonsai industry uses and recommends this Standard potting mix?
In Sydney I know that the 4 proprietors of the commercial nurseries here use their own proprietary bonsai mixes in both their growing on stock trees, and display quality Bonsai in Pots.
Most of the members of the School of Bonsai use Ray Nescis own proprietary mix or Diatomite Based substrates. I know of no one in the school that use a soil from a commercial potting mix supplier.

I know the NBPCA use their own mix as well.

Who in the professional or bonsai industry uses these "standard" off the shelf mixes?



I cannot quite make out the nested quoting from your last 2 posts but

wrote:Ken
The other thing is I get a much better and finer rootball using my mix rather than standard mix.

Once again I think you also may be confusing mix for stock and mix for bonsai pots (but I'm not sure from what you write). There is no high quality commercial bonsai potting media available in the australian market (from what I have seen) Therefore we must prepare our own.

I, and many other people use the identical mix in all my trees regardless of whether they or new starters in plastic or Display quality in a bonsai pot.
Your original post did not differentialte that you use different ones?
Now you say there is no Commercial Bonsai mix, but earlier you said there were standard Bonsai Mix?
I am confused as to the point you are trying to make?

Lastly I too reuse my mix.

Re-using old mix is a very poor horticultural practice (unless you can heat treat it somehow)

Using "Commercial" potting mixes I would agree, but when using inorganic substrates as I do, it is standard practice to wash it out and reuse it in its entirety. It is one of the major benefits to using this type of potting substrate in the first place.
Why would it not be good practice? There are no inorganics in it, the washing, drying, sieving process removes anything else.
I have been using and reusing now for nearly 10 years with no issues, and have no intention of changing.

One other thing is by growing my trees on in the same mix as what I use in bonsai pots makes it really easy to reduce the rootball from a standard pot/grow box to a bonsai pot as I'm not trying to remove different soil from the rootball when repotting.

It's nice that it's easy for you but you really should bare root your trees (except pines) when you transfer. This is the best time to thourghly work on the roots.

Why would there be a need to bare root at every repot?
The only time I bare root a tree is in the initial styling / development of the root system. Once I have sorted the initial root chop or wiring if needed, then I rarely bare root. although many trees will cope, it is not needed and recovery faster If not bare rooted.

When I pot up a tree into a bonsai pot, the only root work needed is to trim them to fit in the chosen pot. All the prep root work should be done well before potting up into its final pot.
unless one was to use different potting medium between prebonsai stock and display trees then

Ken