'POTOLOGY' thoughts & guidelines for pot selection

[nealweb]

I have a question. You hear so much about 'patina'. My pots are all too new to have this, I'm not really sure even what it looks like but what I wanted to know is how long does it take to develop and will a pot develop patina when stored on a shelf indoors or should I try to get all my pots outside into the weather? (I was fascinated by your idea of burying a pot in the garden to mellow and age the glaze too.)
Cheers,
neal.

[chiah]

wanna see perfect pot and tree balance?

check this

http://walter-pall.de/maplesjapanese_ma ... index.html

everytime I see this tree it gives me chicken skin

[MelaQuin]

What I could see in that blue pot is a very old, stout, short trunked azalea that, in season, would produce a massive profusion of white flowers. Between the strength and character of the trunk and the grandiose display of white flowers the tree should be able to be the attention getter, not the pot. Any other colour flower, even the palest pink, would start to fight for attention with the pot. The purity and clarity of white would effectively contrast with the pot without being twee or kitsch. The point that stops me from buying it is the fact that despite the 5 or 6 drainage holes, to my taste they are too small for proper drainage, particularly in the sort of rain we are getting at the moment. I'd take my $620 dollars and browse local bonsai potters. That's what I would do.

[Jarrod]

I think any deciduous tree that gets a red or yellow leaf in Autumn would look amazing in that pot.

I agree, at the price, we could get a great local pot made, hence my mention of the price. Though this is a big pot and we dont see a lot of very large pots done locally.

[MelaQuin]

Patina, that wonderful finish that ages the pot [or an antique] in a way that adds value, sometimes visual, sometimes monetary. Bonsai pots will never achieve a patina safely stowed in a cupboard. Store them under your bonsai benches so they get dirty which will gradually transmit to an old, aged look. In my article I mentioned how I planted a white Mirkwood pot in the garden for 3 months as the glaze was just too white and vibrant for my tastes. One side stubbornly refused to change but the other side greyed down and took the vibrant gloss away. This had the affect of giving a patina of age to the pot even tho it was only 3 months old. Once I gave it a good wash it became an even more beautiful pot.

I have small cascade pot, not particularly finely made but a dark navy gloss. I got it second hand and well used and time and weather has allowed a small seepage of salts through the glaze on the lower parts of the pot. This is not detrimental in this instance as it increases the age and patina of the pot. The 'damaged' areas are understated and do not detract from the tree but handling the pot you would get an impression of age.

So take your bright lovely new pots and sit them on the soil or in the soil and water them when you water your trees. Let nature take its course and put some years on them rather than having them languish in a cupboard until you come to use them. If you have a bonsai pot with stains on it you can normally greatly minimise those before showing by lightly oiling the outside of the pot. Once you have oiled the pot be sure to wipe off all excess oil so it doesn't slip out of your hands when you handle it.

[nealweb]

Thanks Melaquin, I'll get a few out into the weather tomorrow...

[Scott Roxburgh]

I have a question. You hear so much about 'patina'. My pots are all too new to have this, I'm not really sure even what it looks like but what I wanted to know is how long does it take to develop and will a pot develop patina when stored on a shelf indoors or should I try to get all my pots outside into the weather? (I was fascinated by your idea of burying a pot in the garden to mellow and age the glaze too.)
Cheers,
neal.

Patina:

pic1.jpg

This pot is an import from Japan (Tokoname) around 30ish years old

If you notice the white on the base of the pot, this is not patina but salt build up/fert residue/hard water residue...I have not removed it as I am not using this pot as a show pot yet. To remove it I use water and a soft bristled toothbrush. Details of this process:http://bonsaitonight.com/2009/12/11/rep ... g-the-pot/

On both the rim and feet of the pot you will notice that it is a dull browny colour, this is patina.

Patina is something that is often overlooked in Australia, I feel that Pot age should match tree age (not literally) - mature tree requires a nice quality old pot.

[Jow]

http://nichigobonsai.com/2010/12/19/patina/

I made the above post on my blog about Patina.... It has a pic comparing two pots, one fairly new and the other with the start of a nice patina.

Joe

[Gerard]

Thanks Melaquin,
I have read through this article more than once.

I book I read earlier today told me:
"The task of finding the perfect pot for a particular tree is known as hachiawase,literally, pot matching.

[GavinG]

Excellent presentation Melaquin, many thanks.

Sorry Scott,

The brown at the feet of the pot isn't patina, it is just the clay body showing through, and the change of colour at the rim is where the glaze gets thin, allowing the body to glow through a bit.

Patina is the change in texture of the surface of the pot with age and exposure, going from brand-new sparkly-shiny to something slightly subdued, a bit wabi, suggesting age and experience.

Burying/gardening the pots is a great idea. I've just bought two, and now I've got them home, I think I'm going to have to bury them for about 350 years. What looked good in the dark corner of a shop on a rainy day in Sydney turned garish when I got them outside into the clear Canberra sun. We found the same when painting our house here - colours that looked good in a shady house in Sydney looked vile down here.

The colour you see has a lot to do with where the light is coming from, as much as what it is bouncing off.

Off to bury some pots!

Gavin

[Roger]

thanks Gavin for explaing 'patina'. It's an interesting word. Seems like it was first used in English in the mid 1700s. It was originally used to describe the greenish oxidation of copper on bronze objects; something that people liked and showed age because it developed only slowly. It appears that it has been extended widely to refer to a host of situations where desireable characteristics of 'age' are found.

In glazed ceramics, it is as Gavin says, patina is the changing of the surface of the glaze with age. This usually means that it loses some or most of its shininess, which MelaQ described well and is creating by burying her pots : more exposure to acids in the decaying of plant matter will help a lot in that process or etching the glassy surface, and it will also allow the picking up of some colours from that organic brew as well.

Jow, the two pots you show in the link are interesting. I can't see the detail at this resolution, but the yamafusa pot may be noticeably older - it does not appear as shiney, though that may be a characteristic of the glaze unrelated to age. The areas that you point to could be different in colour for reasons other than age - age markings aren't usually so regular in location as these seem to be. The ones along the bottom edge of the glaze could be due to differences in glaze thickness. The lighter blue certainly seems to be part of this and it can be seen also on the under side of the raised line around the middle of the pot. Compare that area, where the glaze is a bit thicker and lighter blue with the broader part of the band above this (remember we are seeing the pot upside down), which is an area where the glaze could be thinner, and thus a different colour. Some glazes are prized because of the differences in colours that you get due to the differences in thickness. The latter are often carefully controlled or used by the potter to achieve changes in colour to highlight patterns. The long, thin darker areas between the feet on the long side of the pot is hard to see well, but it also could be part of the colour change due to thickness of glaze. If you look at the lower part of the corners of the pot, you will see the lighter blue is edged with a darker, browner colour. The fairly precise matching of the browner areas with the bluer ones tend to make me think that this is all part of the colour response to glaze thickness...... just some ideas to throw into the mix of interpreting colour on glazed pots.

[Jow]

Intersting observations Roger.

The photo as you say is low resolution and a little decieving. The light blue that you can see in the glaze is actually light reflecting. In real life the glaze is a murky grey cream colour.

How you can tell that the older of the two pots has a patina is given away in the short front side of the older pot. If you look carefully you can see where the pot has been scratched and the white of the glaze beneith is visable through the patina.


A Reiho pot with the start of a nice patina

It is interesting what you say about glaze thickness, i have noticed this on some pots and some potters whom i have collected use this to great effect. Koyo is one that springs to mind. Some of his green pots seem glazed in a transperant glaze. These glazes show the clay underneith around the pot rim and then become almost solid green towards the base of the pot. Really nice effect.


Koyo pot.

On the otherhand there are other potters that use finishes that try to mimic patina which can often be seen in chinese pots.

I read a while ago about someone using glass etch which is essentailly a strong acid to etch the surface of shiney glazez on cheap pots to give a more toned down matte finish. It was a great way to improve cheap pots as they looked much improved after the process.
I have had a look for the link and couldnt find it but it was as simple as rubbing glass etch on the surface and waiting a few minutes.... Could be worth a go on a cheap pot.

[Jow]

Some good further reading on patina can be found HERE

[Jow]

Wow, I just re-read my posts from last night and realised how poor my spelling was. I guess that's the side effects of posting on a friday night.

Oh, and one more good link HERE

[Scott Roxburgh]

Excellent presentation Melaquin, many thanks.

Sorry Scott,

The brown at the feet of the pot isn't patina, it is just the clay body showing through, and the change of colour at the rim is where the glaze gets thin, allowing the body to glow through a bit.

Patina is the change in texture of the surface of the pot with age and exposure, going from brand-new sparkly-shiny to something slightly subdued, a bit wabi, suggesting age and experience...

Gavin

Gavin I believe that you have missed my point, I am not referring to the clay body of the pot but the dull grey 'dirt' on the glaze, the pic obviously does not show this clearly enough.

Anyway, another good post on the subject of patina...
http://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/201 ... nd-patina/