NEWBIES - Advice on what stock to buy.

[Rory]

This is a very significant point that most newbies do not think of when jumping in to purchase stock trees or bonsai or anything to start with.

The most common question newbies seem to ask is, what stock should I start with and how advanced should the stock be. The best answer to that is, and it is quite easy, is to just visit your local nursery, and buy cheap seedlings for a few $$ each, and then just see if they grow well in your area and how well YOU go looking after those species. You could buy say 50 different species, and after 1 year, the ones that you have managed to keep alive,...then of those, the ones you like the most, go out and purchase larger bonsai stock or pre-bonsai, or starters of these types.

This way, by only spending a few $$ on each species, you will know which ones will grow in your area well and whether you have a better ability to look after certain stock or not. Thus, you can be more confident in knowing that spending $100 on a maple or a conifer is a bad idea because you can't grow them well, or that you can grow figs or mel's or tridents better... etc etc.

When I first got into bonsai, I lived on a balcony and so I did this, thinking it would be an easy way to determine which species I could grow well, and thus happily spend more money and time on. It is advice that works well and has been well received well by my friends wanting to trial their hand at bonsai too.

[Inspired]

Most people that have decided to buy their first bonsai would already have some understanding or knowledge of bonsai (Newbie's Impression).. that is they are a special type of tree that needs attention and care. They are not your pansy priced plants and trees.

The common Juniper is the best first tree to start of with and people from all over the world from a novice to a master would have some sort of Juniper in their collection. Awesome specie to practice on with an "orient bonsai appeal"

- they make great bonsai and are long living
- versatile to all forms of bonsai
- are hardy and buds back well (lots of buds, shoots and branches for the trigger happy newbie to get into and learn)
- moderate growth and ever green
- can grow in many soil conditions (prefers the dryer side)
- versatile to major reworks and transformations (as one gets more advanced) ie completely new look rework, exposed roots, jins, sharis
- plentiful with many types to keep one interested
- tolerates harsh environments ie sun, wind, soil
- easy to look after and maintain

In hind site, spend a little more to get the best Juniper you can afford to buy. It doesn't need to be an extravagant spend. $50-$200 would suffice.

If you rent a car.. you wont look after it. Take ownership and it will be the opposite and you''ll go above and beyond to make sure

that you do look after it well

[ketutg]

Olives and PJ figs do well here in SA and they are both cheap and plentiful

[kcpoole]

Check out the Newbie page on the wiki too
https://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie

Ken

[JaseH]

Whilst I agree buying or planting a bunch of seedlings early on is a good idea, the major pitfall of the newb is impatience - telling them to buy some seedlings and wait a year or so to see what grows before diving into the act of tree butchering will see them take up a much quicker paced hobby like knitting or watching paint dry!

I would buy a few cheaper starters from a bonsai nursery(4+ years of growth) and start researching the species and playing with them. Don't buy anything already worked in a bonsai pot(overpriced) and don't buy a $$$ advanced starter - keep it cheap, as starting out you will do stuff wrong, that's how we learn. Even if you do manage to keep it alive you will have made decisions that have hurt the potential of the tree you started with. This is easier to accept when you haven't invested a lot of money and emotional energy into the tree!

The key things I think are:

1. Get a few trees - so you don't over work/care for one tree.
2. Get some different species(deciduous/evergreens) so you have stuff to do at different times of the year.
3. Don't buy starters in bonsai pots - part of the learning fun is working roots/repotting and seeing your starter transformed from a nursery pot to its first bonsai pot.
4. If you must have a more advanced tree to inspire/motivate/display, do it, but not at the expense of cheaper starter tree's, and get something that hasn't reached its potential so you can still workshop it(join a club) and learn.

My as a relative newbie.

[thoglette]

The best answer to that is, and it is quite easy, is to just visit your local nursery, and buy cheap seedlings for a few $$ each, and then just see if they grow well in your area and how well YOU go looking after those species.

Why not learn from other's mistakes? In most parts of Australia there's an existing body of knowledge on what is and is not good bonsai material. And that knowledge is generally found at the same places as decent starter material - the clubs and specialty bonsai nurseries. (Plus a few good books and websites)

Stuff like A tree for all zones and styles doesn't come from one or two seasons of observation

[Rory]

The best answer to that is, and it is quite easy, is to just visit your local nursery, and buy cheap seedlings for a few $$ each, and then just see if they grow well in your area and how well YOU go looking after those species.

Why not learn from other's mistakes? In most parts of Australia there's an existing body of knowledge on what is and is not good bonsai material. And that knowledge is generally found at the same places as decent starter material - the clubs and specialty bonsai nurseries. (Plus a few good books and websites)

Stuff like A tree for all zones and styles doesn't come from one or two seasons of observation

No, but living on a balcony for example, you never know how much sun you'll get, or at what times, or if you'll remember to water or get experience watering correctly by not over-watering, etc etc. Some things you'll never learn from a club or a book or a forum, apart from basics, so you just have to buy 'em, grow 'em, and see if they do well or not with the newbie themselves first attempting them. Whether you buy a $3 seedling, or a $300 starter, repotting, cutting back, pruning, trunk chopping, is all something that you can get cheap easy experience from cheap starter stock with, and be confident then to take it to the next level for larger purchases once you see which stock didn't die as a result of newby attempts.

[Elmar]

Sooooooo ... there are at least 3 different methods newbies can follow ...

Looks like it depends very much on your personality! If only we could set up a questionnaire that would then suggest one of these (and other yet-to-be-identified) methods for newbies!



It almost looks like this post needs to be 'Pinned' to a greeting screen for newbies that join the forum ... or may be have a greeting screen until you've gotten past your 30/50 posts ...

[gerald randall]

My to this topic.

JaseH made the point that if a newb wants a display tree, they should get one. I agree with all the posts. I would like to emphasise two points. Geography, lifestyle and typography play a massive role. Thus getting a few trees which can be tested for suitability is important. When I started growing Bonsai I lost a few very good trees, which were just not suited for the geography. Very hot dry summers and very cold dry winters. The maples just could not handle it and they died. Surprisingly in the garden they did ok. Not great, but better than in a small bonsai container.

The second point is that Bonsai is a long term long term hobby. Much more so when you just start out. It seems a lifetime away. Having vision and insight in how a tree will develop comes with years of experience. As such experienced growers can look at an undeveloped stock tree and have a very good idea how long it will take to develop and how to do so. That vision is what keeps us interested. My wife has been growing bonsai for just over 2 years now. After the first 3 months she stopped and lost interest. She was frustrated because the trees she was working on looked like, well, stick men in a pot. I guess I had failed as I should have guided her. She went out and bought "cheap" stock which just had no potential. She worked it and at the end of it, had poor results. So I decided to take a far more kean interest in her development. I took her to the local bonsai nursery and a few of the local commercial nurseries. Helped her choose some really good stock. Not expensive stock, but stock which after the first training would actually look like a pre-bonsai immediately or within months. I also bought her two reasonably established bonsai. Something she can be proud of and can form part of the collection we display. All she had to do was maintain them. And she has. She is a very serious grower now and very focused. She is inspired and she will grow bonsai for the rest of her life. In addition to all the great advice in this post, I would encourage newbies to get one or two trees they can be immediately proud of. We are EXTREMELY luck that we get exceptional stock trees in our area with two masters who live within a 5km radius of us. But nevertheless, a newbie should join a club and ask some of the senior members if they would not mind going with them to a specialist bonsai nursery or commercial nursery to get some stock. They generally will not and many will probably have some excess stock they want to pass on.

OK, having said this, when I started there was nothing like the Internet and just finding books on the topic was a challenge, so we really had to experiment and feel our way through this. But, with Internet and clubs, the starting out is not that tough. My

[Elmar]

My to this topic.
But nevertheless, a newbie should join a club and ask some of the senior members if they would not mind going with them to a specialist bonsai nursery or commercial nursery to get some stock. They generally will not and many will probably have some excess stock they want to pass on.

That is good for where you are, unfortunately, 2000K north of Perth, I'm it!

We don't really have any nurseries you can visit to pick up anything with the exception of Home Hardware (thats right, we don't even have the big Green Shed). The closest nursery is in Broome (600Ks away) and they focus entirely on Palms (leaf reduction is a pain on those! ) and smaller ground covers not suitable for Bonsai.

I'm not exactly complaining, but would like to add the point that we aren't all in a position to join a club, attend meetings (although arguing with myself can be challenging ) and so I gleen most of my information from here, books and those members willing enough to allow me to bother them off-posts! I have managed to make contact and have developed good relationships with an Indigenous working nursery (for revegetation - not open to public) where I have gotten some Calls from AND I have recently (on a trip to Perth) been gifted a couple of trees that have some great potential (post to follow soon as they are going Bananas!)... I would love to join and meet up regularly with a club!

but then, this post was about how to guide newbies on start ups...

[Rory]

We don't really have any nurseries you can visit to pick up anything with the exception of Home Hardware (thats right, we don't even have the big Green Shed). The closest nursery is in Broome (600Ks away) and they focus entirely on Palms (leaf reduction is a pain on those! ) and smaller ground covers not suitable for Bonsai.

I'm not exactly complaining, but would like to add the point that we aren't all in a position to join a club, attend meetings (although arguing with myself can be challenging ) and so I gleen most of my information from here, books and those members willing enough to allow me to bother them off-posts!.

My suggestion to you then, good sir, is to wait until seed pods are ready and ripe for growing, and grow from seed. Generally speaking, if they grow in your street, and provided you can give almost same conditions, then try that, and also, obviously, try taking cuttings, air-layering, just about anything from stock in your area that you like. Nothing to lose really.

[Elmar]

My suggestion to you then, good sir, is to wait until seed pods are ready and ripe for growing, and grow from seed. Generally speaking, if they grow in your street, and provided you can give almost same conditions, then try that, and also, obviously, try taking cuttings, air-layering, just about anything from stock in your area that you like. Nothing to lose really.

Hahaha, not sure I'm old enough to be called Sir, but thank you; I am already attempting air layers but am struggling to find a way for the roots not dry out! While the weather seems to be great for growing (especially if I manage to keep the water up to them) I have found that the sphagnum moss drys out every day... so I have setup a 'retic' hose into the wrap to keep it moist as sealing it doesn't seem to work very well and makes it hard to check (and re-seal) ... just got to keep on trying until I find the right formula!

I am trying to strike new cuttings with varying success (depending on my availability due to work & our testing environment) but I'll get there!
My Sister in Perth has set up a gardening business and she is growing different plants from seeds and is going to start to grow a variety of Mells and Calls for me as she has the right set up on her 10 acre block! Once established, they take off like rockets up here, maybe that is my limitation - can't get started, but once I'm off (and not going away for holidays) I am able to make a go of it.

It's only been 10.5 months since I started so I found this post very interesting because I thought everyone must be doing the same as I did/do! Bit of an eye-opener and, to me, worthy of precipitating out the different methods and committing them into a "sticky" specifically to beginners ... "Find your Bonsai personality" and then follow the ideas below ... food for thought.

[dansai]

I am already attempting air layers but am struggling to find a way for the roots not dry out! While the weather seems to be great for growing (especially if I manage to keep the water up to them) I have found that the sphagnum moss drys out every day... so I have setup a 'retic' hose into the wrap to keep it moist as sealing it doesn't seem to work very well and makes it hard to check (and re-seal) ... just got to keep on trying until I find the right formula!

You can wrap your layer in clear plastic and seal well, then wrap in aluminium foil. That way you can just remove the foil to check.

[treeman]

In hind site, spend a little more to get the best Juniper you can afford to buy. It doesn't need to be an extravagant spend. $50-$200 would suffice.

I agree that junipers are good for learning on but I really would love to see the juniper that cost $200 or over!

[rookie93]

In hind site, spend a little more to get the best Juniper you can afford to buy. It doesn't need to be an extravagant spend. $50-$200 would suffice.

I agree that junipers are good for learning on but I really would love to see the juniper that cost $200 or over!

Last time I was at Bonsai South $200 wouldn't even get you to close to buying some of their stock junipers. At club level (and that includes here) many want great stock for nothing or near enough then wonder why the art still doesn't progress compared to countries where the quality of stock is appreciated enough to pay a realistic price, not discount eddies...