Sheoak (Allocasuarina?) yamadori

[Ryszil]

Evening all,

On the way home from work today I took a quick detour along a street in a future industrial area and found this she oak and thought I would give it a go, the natural jin was too tempting. I dug it as carefully as I could and brought it home. Sorry the background isn't the best but the pot is bloody heavy, I figured that was best so it wouldn't blow over (and it was all I had on hand, wasn't really expecting to dig up a tree).

181030 Sheoak2.jpg

181030 Sheoak3.jpg

181030 Sheoak4.jpg

181030 Sheoak5.jpg

181030 Sheoak1.jpg

This is by far the biggest tree I have ever attempted and obviously there is a lot of cutting back to do but I'm uncertain as to how far or even if I should leave it alone right now. So far the only modification I have made was breaking off the rest of the jin (already cracked, there was a good 1m more with new growth coming out the side). The branch crossing the jin needs to go but should I just leave it be for now? I left the roots alone as much as I could and only cut back thick ones to allow to fit into the pot following Rory's advice in a previous post I made regarding a much smaller tree of the same species. I also tried to find river sand as Rory advised to put it close to the trunk, I used propagating sand and bonsai soil for the rest. I realise this is a big one but I am looking for a potted feature tree out the front of my house and this could be it if nothing else.

as always thanks in advance guys

Russ

[shibui]

Well done on the collection and for its survival.
There is more than enough roots there to sustain this tree I note that some are damaged. Did you make clean cuts before potting up? New roots definitely grow better when the ends of the roots are not so mangled but too late to do it now. Should still grow OK.
I would normally cut back the live parts to reduce the amount of leaf area. Always leave plenty of leaf but reduce the amount where there is a lot. Having said that there is another school that says leave as much leaf mass as possible to help feed new roots - I just have not been game to try that yet. Most trees will just sacrifice any excess leaves in order to survive while new roots regenerate so maybe we're all being a bit ridiculous arguing over how much to cut or leave.

[Ryszil]

Ahh Shibui if only we could find a way to propagate you like we do trees. Thank you so much. To answer your questions, yet I did cut the damaged roots back and gave it a good drink of seasol, that photo was taken before I fitted it too the pot. Interesting about the 2 school of thoughts on the leaf chopping, the little she oak you identified in a previous post of mine has had most of its leaves turn brown now after 2 weeks in a pot, with the exception of 1 so hopefully it is doing as you say and shedding what it doesn't need and growing roots. I cut very little back off that one so maybe this type of tree will benefit from a more of a prune, I think I'll take the one off that crosses the jin at the very least as that stupid rabbit of mine that I have mentioned so many times has already started trying to eat the leaves as it hangs down low enough for it to reach.

[robb63]

Hi Russ
That looks like a good score.
I would suggest to take your time deciding future direction.
Let it go until this time next year. By then you may change your mind many times
The root spread and lower trunk look good and worth your time and effort.
When its healthy it will back bud well after a big chop down
I have only dug one little casuarina last year and am amazed how they recover.
Good luck with yours

[Rory]

That’s a good dig. Good size trunk and if it survives it will give you a tonne or options in years to come.
Don’t give up early if all the foliage eventually turns brown and dies. Many times I’ve had casuarina take over 6 months to shoot.

I’m in the same school as Neil. If you do a massive root cut and dig up a tree, I find it hard to leave a heap of foliage on anything. I don’t recommend removing all leaf, but just a removal in moderation.
I too have often wondered about how a tree grows after a “survival mode”.
Obviously they can’t “choose” which branches to keep, it’s the response from its DNA and whatever the cells do. But it would be great to know more of the science.
I have often seen Casuarina lose most branches and only have a few leaders remain. Other times I’ve seen it systematically die back from the outer edges inwards. But the latter is usually more so from drought.

Either way, most will usually agree that a primary reason you usually cut back in moderation after a big root removal is that it increases the chance of the tree keeping the structure that you actually prefer, rather than it dying back a big area of where you don’t want it to die. Because in moderately reducing the foliage, it means you might be able to reduce the chance that the tree will die back further because it has to support too much foliage with not enough root.

One thing I would definitely not do now is to continually cut a bit here off or there off. With a big root reduction / dig, make the big decisions now, and leave it for at least a good year or so, especially if it’s just been dug. If it’s a wild dig, I usually leave it for at least 2 years before I do anything after that. Only trimming it occasionally after a year. A big mistake is to dig or do a massive trunk chop, then a month or two later or so, just as the tree is pushing out new shoots, you cut again, and all that desperate energy is removed again, forcing the tree to start ANOTHER start of shoots again, and/or often it dies back a lot further, or dies completely. I made this rookie mistake plenty of times early on in my casuarina travels.

After a dig, make sure you keep the water up for the next few months especially coming into summer. But with hardly any fine root, you’ll probably find you don’t need to water it very often, but just don’t allow the soil to get somewhat dry.

[DangerousDave]

Hi Russ. Sweet score I reckon. Yep, Cauarina or Allocasuarina - hard to say without some more info. The tiny leaves in the nodes on the ‘needles’ will help you get an ID if you want to go that far. I’m sure there are threads in here about that.

Couldn’t agree more with the comments here already. I’ve limited experience, but I’d consider leaving at least some of the branch crossing the jin, just for now, you never know what you might be left with for your design once this tree eventually takes to its new situation.
I’m a leaf-remover in this situation, but have no reason to reject the other school/s of thought. I have made the mistake Rory refers to about not leaving enough time to recover before tinkering. For me it’s the novice battle of resisting the urge for some sort of instant bonsai attempt. Some pretty good material to get you something nice in the fairly short term I reckon, though.

[Watto]

Hi Russ, anyone who digs big is a winner in my books. About March this year I dug a Casuarina and only now is it starting to put out new growth, however it did retain most of its previous growth as well.
Please don't cut the crossing branch just yet as in my opinion my may become very useful with a bit of wire. As Rory has said, give it time to do its thing before you do your thing.
Coming from someone who has dug plenty of trees the strength not to anything now is needed and if need be, always walk past your new tree with your hands in your pocket.

[dansai]

You have had a lot of great advice already, and kudos for having a go and digging what could be a great tree.

I also would be looking at reducing the foliage as a few have mentioned. What I would do is for each foliage mass, starting at the bottom of the branch wrap your hand around the "foliage" (which are actually stems in the case of Casuarina) and run your hand along the branch until you have about 1/2 below your hand and the other 1/2 in your hand or beyond. Then cut straight through just below your hand. This way your reduce the foliage mass, thus reducing transpiration, but still retaining plenty to continue transpiration and feed the tree and new roots. After that leave it for 2 years, other than maybe trimming back a rogue shoot, as Rory also mentioned.

I first got into Bonsai about 10 years ago and I have trees that I got then. They have all been through many changes, often because of mistakes or accidents, but more so because my skill, experience, knowledge, taste and artistic ability have grown. 2 years is a very short time in Bonsai. In 2 years you will have a tree to make some decisions about, probably chops. 2 years after that, some more decisions to make about the tree's future direction. Then 2 years after that, an amazing tree that you can start to refine and will be a centre piece of your collection. And by that time, your understanding of Bonsai, and you're ability to achieve it will be more matured.

Again, as Rory said, keep it watered. And good luck.

[Ryszil]

Awesome guys, thanks for all the great replies. Lots of really good info there. I have decided to basically leave it as is for now. Looking back at the top of the jin that I removed where it was cracked I would say the tree lost close to 50% of its foliage so its probably been through enough for now. I like your idea Dansai however but I might leave it for now however tempting, with the exception of taking off needles as they break.

In the foreseeable future I think there will be many coffees in the morning and beers in the evening spent looking and thinking about it. Its quite exciting to have my first tree at a finished height and width.

thanks again, any more input is welcome and I'll keep everyone posted

[greg27]

thanks again, any more input is welcome and I'll keep everyone posted

Hey mate, any updates on this one? Looks like a good score so hopefully it survived collection.

[Ryszil]

Hey Greg,

I've been inactive on the board for a while but have still kept going with my trees. This one is going strong, I'm trying to find a suitable pot for it, its cracked the one that its in.

I haven't done a great deal with it, I left it alone for 2 years and have really only cut back a few branches, nothing major.

CasPot.jpg

CasPot2.jpg

Cas1.jpg

Cas2.jpg

Cas3.jpg

CasBack1.jpg

CasBranch1.jpg

CasSide1.jpg

[Watto]

Congrats, it looks very healthy.
Time to start working on it I think. It is great stock and could be really something in a few years.
PS - a good Aussie made pot is the go, plenty of good home town bonsai pot makers available.

[Ryszil]

Thanks Watto, I’m thinking now to start deducing the branches. It seems to back bud like no tomorrow. I’ll have to try and get a better overall photo. Any advice is appreciated