Air layering a Trident Maple

[legoman_iac]

Howdy all,

I'm trying my first air layer on a trident maple in my backyard and am after any advice about timings (and anything else I've missed).

I started it back in November last year. I forgot to get any root stimulant so it is just the sphagnum moss. The moss has seemed moist non-stop, so I feel I've sealed it OK.

I've noticed some of the leaves are starting to turn red and the others don't look as good as the rest of the tree. So I (perhaps foulishly) opened the plastic this evening to take a look at what's going on. I didn't think about it too well, and should have taken photos. So I've just gone back out to take some of the overall setup, and hoping this is enough to get some input.

Overall area of air layer: http://sketchdigital.com.au/photos/bons ... 192940.jpg

Close up, with hand in shot to show scale: http://sketchdigital.com.au/photos/bons ... 192916.jpg

I gently lifted the moss, careful not to damage any possible roots though I couldn't see any long roots, either white or dark brown, as expecting from the literature I've read. However the area around the top part of the stripped bark section was about 10-20mm thicker than above or below. I think there were pale bits poking through, possibly roots, not sure. I didn't want to disturb it too much incase there's still some hope.

I was thinking I'd saw it off in the next week or so, first by sawing half way ... then wait a week before completely removing it. Is it too early to do this? I've read to do this towards middle of summer, but I cannot find those tutorials anymore, should've bookmarked it.

Any help greatly appreciated, or if I should abandon this air layer and let the tree heal, if possible?

Thanks,
Daniel

[shibui]

Give it some more time Daniel.
The thickened area above the cut is callus. That's good Roots will come from that. The pale bits poking through are probably the very beginnings of roots. You need to give them some time to grow into real roots before you cut it off.
I know that layers can survive with very little root - they are like big cuttings but just about to grow roots so it might survive at this stage but I think it would be better to give it a few more weeks at least.

There is no point in sawing halfway through when severing a layer. Might as well cut it right off in one go.

There is no real best time of year to cut a layer off. If you take it off in autumn it will just go dormant for the winter then grow in spring. If you cut it off in winter it will stay dormant over winter then grow in spring. If you wait until early spring it will start to bud as soon as the weather warms up. Pretty much the same result whenever you cut it off.

you are going to have a big job to turn that into a good bonsai but you will learn a lot about what works and what doesn't while you are playing with it.

[GreenThumb]

I have a similar thread running, some advice given to me was to reduce the branching above the layer (still leaving a viable branch or two) in the time before cutting the layer off to reduce the amount of work the layer will have to do to keep everything alive once you cut it off. Given the size and number of branches from your images, this would be a really good idea to start reducing them now.

They take time, I have some recalcitrant ones from October still reluctantly putting roots out. It is awesome when it comes together though, and I hope in time I can get some solid trees out of them. Freebies are for learning!! I also agree with shibui, layers are a long road to good bonsai, I line up the trident I bought from him with the layers I have taken so far, and while the trunks on mine are thicker, his wins hands down for visual appeal and of course nebari. Luckily I am in it for the long game…

[legoman_iac]

Thanks for the tips and encouragement (callus - woohoo!)! So thered leavesare OK? Good to know it's Ok to leave it longer. Will give it a few more weeks, maybe more. Will also start reducing some branches.

Thanks again, will update more when it makes it to pot.

- Daniel

[shibui]

I would leave all the branches for now. As far as I know more leaves = more roots quicker. It is the leaves that make the food that makes the roots grow. Cut the branches after you have some roots.
the red leaves are probably stress - it may have got a bit dry or may be starving. Try watering the leaves with a soluble fertiliser. You could also water the layered area with a bit of diluted fertiliser or seasol (it is ok to undo the top tie to get some water, etc into the moss or liquid can often dribble down the trunk into the moss)- the callus and protoroots should be able to absorb some to feed the leaves. More nutrients also = quicker roots.

[legoman_iac]

Oh no ... just saw your last post shibui, I removed a bunch of branches (the stressed ones) last night.

Will try some seasol, how often would you suggest?

- Daniel

[badabing888]

did you happen to take a pic of the callus?

i have a few first attempts and one had about a thick callus i assumed it didn't take and just cut it off, i have another 2 still going form november sometime and if anyone has a visual of how it should look on a quick "check" that would be great!

[longd_au]

Last year I air layered an elm along with some tridents and red leaf plum. Although everything rooted after a month or so, the elm didn't. The following spring, I cleaned out the bit I stripped the bark and reapplied the spag. Moss. This year the callus all extended into roots.

Sometimes it's just because it got a little dry or the moss was not firmly tied to the area. The same reason roots will die if you have large air pockets in the soil when incorrectly repotting, roots will not form if you have gaps between the bark and moss. In my case, it was because the moss slid down the trunk. As long as the tree is not dead, you can fix the layer.

[legoman_iac]

Hey guys,

Thanks for replies, I'm thinking now that I should re-apply the spag. moss ... When I do, I'll take some pics and link then to this thread. It's reassuring to know there's still a good chance.

- Daniel

[legoman_iac]

Hey All,

Managed to get some time with the maple air layer yesterday ... and glad I did! Looks like, I think, I must not have done a good job stripping all the bark off and there must have been enough for the tree to bridge the gap! I've scrapped the callus away and applied some fresh sphag moss and this time only keeping the top part covered.

The lower part of the layer was also forming a callus, which I guess means I've setup a good environment for it but bad as the tree is trying to undo all my damage. After 24 hours of being out of the bag it has already dried up, so shouldn't cause any more issues.

Pics below, keen for feedback, advice, etc

Front view:



Bridged callus, bit at the top/behind where I cannot easily reach so was over looked originally:



New wrapping:

[Ray M]

Hi Daniel,
The following are a few photos that may help on what to look for with your layer.

The next couple of photos show the amount of Sphagnum that I use in layering.

DSCN0159-3.jpg

Plastic wrap.jpg

DSCN0255-2.JPG

DSCN0253-2.JPG

DSCN0258-2.JPG

Image-3.jpg

Image-4.jpg

I hope you don't mind me making comment about the last layer. I would never leave part of a layer exposed. I would always fully cover the layer.

PS I have send you a PM.

Regards Ray

[legoman_iac]

Hi Ray,

Thanks for the advice and pics. Don't think my eyes are trained enough yet. Thought I have similar sphag moss. How much more do you think I should add? 50%, 200%?

Do you think the "bridging callus" has slowed the root development? I started this in November last year thinking it'd be ready to cut off now. I'm yet to try seasol, as my 18 month old daughter runs around underneath and worry about what she picks up.

If the lower part has dried out do you think it's too late to repack?

Thanks again,
Daniel

[Ray M]

Hi Daniel,

Hi Ray,

Thanks for the advice and pics. Don't think my eyes are trained enough yet. Thought I have similar sphag moss. How much more do you think I should add? 50%, 200%? At least another 50%

Do you think the "bridging callus" has slowed the root development? Yes, if a layer bridges the two cuts and heals you may not get any roots at all. I started this in November last year thinking it'd be ready to cut off now. I'm yet to try seasol, as my 18 month old daughter runs around underneath and worry about what she picks up.

If the lower part has dried out do you think it's too late to repack? It may possibly be okay. You would need to redo the layer as soon as possible. For the moment, tie some plastic around the whole area to try and prevent any more lose of moisture. When you do the new layer this can be removed.

Thanks again,
Daniel

Regards Ray

[legoman_iac]

Hi Ray,

Thanks for the extra info/reply. Will re-do the sphag again tonight.

So do I understand correctly that breaking the bridge will now allow for roots to develop? Or will the branch just give up?

- Daniel

[kcpoole]

Hi Ray,

Thanks for the extra info/reply. Will re-do the sphag again tonight.

So do I understand correctly that breaking the bridge will now allow for roots to develop? Or will the branch just give up?

- Daniel

If the gap is bridged by callous then you will nmot get roots developing.
Remove the moss and recut the layer site again.

Ken