Pots, Box, Bed, Ground

[legoman_iac]

More a realisation than Q&A, though always very keen to hear from others. Who agree, disagree, experience the same or different. What's tried and tested.

As I started out, I was eager to have "bonsai looking bonsai"
... I snapped up heaps of "bonsai pots" as my collection grew in number. Then my wife would say "looks like sticks in pots" and I'd hear that sentiment echoed on here too. My two trusted sources aligned? Conspiracy?!

Then people ask me, "how many do you have?" ... this is kind of like, how many good photos from your trip? Not counting the ones that died? Then I'd think ... 60+ pots, lots of effort, time, water, fertiliser ... not sure I can really say I have more than a dozen, and that's stretching the term bonsai. I wouldn't get rid of any yet, like saying "choose your favourite kid".

I've evolved my view and understanding, and consider most trees to be "in training" these days. Or practise ones as I tend to get duplicates of a new species.

Now I'm not too overly fussed what people categorise them as, for me it is an art form (mixed with bioscience), so all are potential bonsai. More like, I'm sketching and trialling many styles, shapes, genre ... haven't found my own preference/voice yet. If I even need to have just one style, not sure I do.

I came into bonsai thinking, "yeh, wanna do it the way people think of bonsai, giant old junipers" but have since really enjoyed the vast variety of natives, flowering, deciduous, or all the above (also not so easy to come by here).

So next repotting am thinking to really evaluate whether some will stay in their pots. Some dry out too quickly and not really developed enough to be in shallow pots. I want to focus on development and not fussed about presentation right now (for most).

I might even build some mini "grow boxes" to bundle similar species together. Curious if that's worth it? I know pots are best with a little breathing room between trees though.

I've got a garden bed and some ground area I could even drop some trees into, though heard mixed results over how much that actually thickens things up. The old "a year in the ground is like 5 in the pot". Sounds like it's great for younger trees but older ones they could be too stubborn?

Assume this is part of the journey, right?

[Trimmy]

For me, plants in large pots thicken up the fastest. When they're in the ground I give them less attention because I know they will survive without me.

[shibui]

I've got a garden bed and some ground area I could even drop some trees into, though heard mixed results over how much that actually thickens things up. The old "a year in the ground is like 5 in the pot". Sounds like it's great for younger trees but older ones they could be too stubborn?

I've planted older bonsai in the garden a couple of times. They typically take a couple of years to realize they are free and then start to grow. Once they start to grow they'll grow as fast as any other tree planted in the same spot.

Younger trees planted in the ground definitely thicken much faster than the same tree in a raised bed which is faster than a grow box which is faster than most pots.
A couple of exceptions: junipers typically don't grow much for the first 12 months. Then they grow slowly during the second 12 months and then start to take off in the third and subsequent years. For the first couple of years you usually get better growth from trees in pots but after that the ground growing trees will overtake those in pots.
Banksias and ficus thicken quite well even in small pots. They do grow faster in larger pots and in ground but you can get great thickening in pots if you don't have ground space. Obviously you'll need frost free winters for (most) ficus to grow outdoors in the ground.

[TimIAm]

I gave up on proportionally sized bonsai pots years ago. I do have a few trees in oversized pots, which are just being used as grow pots. However, these are cheap, ugly mass-produced pots. I can't afford to buy grow pots for all of my trees, only to have to also (eventually) buy top quality pots for my trees when they become something. I'd rather just use plastic nursery pots and save my pennies for when the time comes that I feel trees are worthy enough for a quality pot. Also, the watering.

In regards to ground growing, there was this great post from some guy on bnut the other day which I found really informative. I have done some ground growing, but most of that was parking trees until I decided how I wanted to develop them. I've just started doing it with purpose and this post has some great points https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/hi-al ... st-1124154

It has been said more than once that ground growing isn't a magic bullet and comes with its own challenges. Especially if you're busy for extended periods.

After 20 years I'd still consider the majority of my trees to be "in training" except for a handful. I've only just started looking around for suitable pots for a couple of my trees.

Recently someone posted about trees making tiny incremental improvements each year as our knowledge improves and each tree being a showcase of those individual learnings. That really struck me, rather than thinking of trees being in training and never quite making the mark, I could think about trees that are just trees, but they are constantly being developed to look even better. To me, that thinking brings back some of the wonder I enjoyed when I stuck my first stick in a pot.

[Kedron Brook]

I really relate to what you wrote. Lots of sticks in pots here, and reducing the diversity of the collection over-time. Learning to see different forms of success is nice, simply getting flowers is rewarding. More duplicates here too.

Just finished a house move and what's on my mind is about sunlight. Obviously pots made the move much easier than digging up from a garden bed. But the amount of sunlight at the new place (4-6 hours direct morning sun, early-afternoon heavy shade) will mean less dense growth and generally less health. So when you say it's art, it's like sculpting and so my sun-hungry plants won't give me as much material to shape. Root space is not the limit. And to be honest I have low confidence in producing the root density for a bonsai pot.

I put some shimpaku cuttings together in a large styrofoam box about 2 years ago. They are doing alright. The soil I used back then is too heavy and slow draining. I will take them out next spring and try little shohin/ mame projects. That will also open up bench-space but conversely will require more attentive watering. Seeing what Shibui wrote, might be cause enough to leave them until Spring 2025.

[SuperBonSaiyan]

Younger trees planted in the ground definitely thicken much faster than the same tree in a raised bed which is faster than a grow box which is faster than most pots.

I'm curious why trees planted in the ground thicken faster than in a raised bed? I would have thought the raised bed would be the same thing as the ground, just easier access for pruning/wiring/maintenance, but you've far more experience than I.

Is it just something you've noticed? Or is there a horticultural reason why?

[shibui]

I have not actually tried growing bonsai in raised beds but I put that second as my experience of raised beds is that they dry out much quicker, especially around the edges, than the open ground. Add a slightly more limited root run and my gut feeling is that you'll get reduced growth.

All the above really depends on a number of factors:
Soil type: If your local soil is real crap it is likely you'll have reduced growth compared to a really good loam. A well made raised bed will probably do better than impoverished soil. Sometimes even pots could be better.
Water: If you can maintain adequate soil moisture in your raised beds they could equal or exceed open soil.
Nutrients: Easier to add to pots or raised beds so if you are diligent with water and fert you may get better growth than open soil.
Soil pH, etc is easier to alter in pots and small areas than in larger open plots.

Raised beds is definitely easier to see what's happening and maybe intervene before problems get out of hand. I stopped laying down on the ground in the grow beds to see what was happening years ago. Now I just accept that some trees will develop problems. Growing a few more helps mitigate those failures.
All my experience of wiring trees while fast growing has been bad. They grow so fast the wire invariably marks the trunks and branches, often it just disappears inside the trunk. Again, if you think you can be more diligent than me feel free to give it a go.